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Water Pump Removal

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by ronnie victor, May 24, 2018.

  1. May 24, 2018
    ronnie victor

    ronnie victor Member

    raleigh, nc
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    Hi, All. I soon have to replace a leaking water pump on my 66 F4 cj5. I believe it's the original because I don't recall ever changing it. I have already gotten the top two bolts to move, so no concerns there. However, I am concerned about the one long bolt, at a 5:00 position when looking from grill side.

    This long bolt goes through the pump's hose connection. It therefore has been immersed in coolant for 52 years. What can I expect? A corroded, thin long bolt that will readily snap as I try to loosen it? I hope not.

    I don't want disaster; just easy PB blaster enhanced removal of all four bolts (3 short and one long)

    What advice and experience have you had that you can pass along? Thanks
     
  2. May 24, 2018
    PeteL

    PeteL Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    If you do break it, try and leave a stub you can get the vise-grips onto. ;)
    I suppose you could even anticipate this, and grind the head off to remove the pump.

    I've had them break off, then turn out freely once the tension was released. But you have to hold your tongue just right.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  3. May 24, 2018
    NCRenII

    NCRenII yellow fever

    Far Nor Cal
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    Before you do anything buy some Kroil apply it to the fasteners heat cycle it a few times and it may come loose.
    If the motor does not run, try using a torch, propane or mapp to heat cycle the fastener.
     
  4. May 25, 2018
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2020 Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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    Remove all the rest and hit the bolt straight on with a hammer a couple times. Try and tighten a little and then loosen. It may break free. Be a bit gentle. If it wont budge, I would do as Pete said and grind off the head before you break it so that you have a lot of material to work with for your vise grips. Heat, penetrating oil, repeat.. Good luck.
     
  5. May 25, 2018
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    If you have air, use a die grinder and carbide bit to grind the bolt head off.
     
  6. May 25, 2018
    ronnie victor

    ronnie victor Member

    raleigh, nc
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    Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions. Interesting to me that a strong suggestion is to nip it in the bud by first cutting off bolt head.
     
  7. May 25, 2018
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2020 Sponsor

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    Thats kind of a last resort. there is a good possibility that the bolt is eaten away there it goest through, but there may also be corrosion that will inhibit its removal through the water pump. Good luck.
     
  8. May 25, 2018
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Rather than emphasize grinding the head off, I'd say be patient and don't give up on removing it. Give it a lot of time and effort with heat, penetrating oil, gentle turning back and forth, tapping on the bolt head, before you give up and either break it off or grind off the head. Grinding off the head is better than breaking, but getting the bolt out is better still. If you carefully turn the bolt, you can often feel when the threads are turning versus the bolt twisting. The bolt will only twist so much before it snaps off.
     
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  9. May 28, 2018
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Member 2020 Sponsor

    Louisville, Ky
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    Use heat and a 6 point socket
     
  10. May 30, 2018
    ronnie victor

    ronnie victor Member

    raleigh, nc
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    Thanks, All. Here's what I learned so far. I drained the radiator last night, and then expended a lot of energy twisting and pulling at the hose located at the long bolt mounting the water pump. Once I removed the hose, I could feel inside the pump what I thought was the long bolt. It felt solid, not corroded. I then shot a lot PB blaster at what felt like bolt threads.

    In short time, gentle work with my rachet popped the bolt loose, and out it came. Yahoo. (I don't think any broken portion remains in engine block)

    It appears that the bolt is protected inside a cast iron sheath and never in contact with coolant. Ingenious!

    When I fully remove the pump and receive my Walcks replacement in a few days, I'll post some pictures of the innards of each. One pump 52 years old and US made, and the other new (and likely foreign built...ich)
     
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  11. Jun 1, 2018
    ronnie victor

    ronnie victor Member

    raleigh, nc
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    pumps.jpg Received my new water pump for my F4, CJ5, 1966. I photographed the inside of the hose connection portion to show where the long bolt (one of four total bolts) inserts through a cast iron sheath that is part of the casting (see arrow in left hand photo of new pump; old leaky pump on the right side). I was probably naive to think that the long bolt was exposed to coolant. Maybe this photo will help others in their future pump replacements. In any case, all four bolts are out and the next step is to insert the new pump over coming days. I'll use the aviator (Perm #3, I believe) sealer on gasket, engine, and pump.

    The pump has two topside threaded holes that came with pipe plugs to use or not use. I will need one threaded hole (opposite side of the photographed pump) for a 'heater' hose connector (you can see it at the top of the right-hand side pic of the old pump), and use the pipe plug in the hole not needed (located directly above the
    large hose connector shown).

    I hope that I did this photo insertion correctly. --Ronnie

    pumps.jpg
     
  12. Jun 1, 2018
    EchoWars

    EchoWars Banned

    Kansas City
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    Nice to see proper engineering, eh?
     
  13. Jun 1, 2018
    Oldriginal86

    Oldriginal86 Member

    Pasadena, Md.
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    Even though that bolt isn’t emmersed in coolant, you should still put an ample amount of antiseize or grease on it during installation.
     
  14. Jun 1, 2018
    PeteL

    PeteL Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    What about the by-pass hose to the head?

    th.jpeg
     
  15. Jun 2, 2018
    ronnie victor

    ronnie victor Member

    raleigh, nc
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    I don't have that bypass hose on my F4. Hence, the pipe plug to insert into the top-of-pump threaded hole.
     
  16. Jun 2, 2018
    PeteL

    PeteL Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Well yes, but shouldn't it have one?
     
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  17. Jun 2, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Neither of mine have it, and I am pretty sure they never did. Does anyone know the purpose of it?
     
  18. Jun 3, 2018
    william_cj3b

    william_cj3b 3BOB driver 2019 Sponsor

    Milton, FL
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    I think they were intended to allow some water circulation in the engine to prevent hot spots before the thermostat opens on earlier jeeps (less likely to come with a heater) :schooled: But I'm probably completely wrong :blah:
     
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  19. Jun 3, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    I've thought about the water circulation theory before, and it certainly seems logical. I also wonder if it actually helps the engine warm up quicker and more evenly during cold weather.
     
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