Warn Full Floater Kit

Hey, I have a '67 CJ-5 with the Dana 44 Rear end with the passenger offset rear diff, and I wanted to run the Warn Full Floater Rear conversion, but I was told by Warn that the entire line has been discontinued about 6 months ago and to just get new 1541H shafts from Dutchman. I flat tow my jeep and I 4-wheel it, so I want the full floater kit so I can A) turn the hubs out to flat tow, B) Have a full floating rear end for 'wheeling strength and C) If I run the full floater I can run the 4340 Chromo shafts instead of the 1541H alloy shafts, which will be much stronger. Does anyone know where I may still be able to score one of these kits? New, used, in a parts store, online vendor, anything? If not, anyone know how to build a DIY full-floater rear conversion. Hopefully someone has some good news for me. Thanks.

 

You mean something like this?
http://earlycj5.com/tech/axle/d44FFDIY/index.shtml

 

Hey, thanks for the help you guys. I thought I had seen the article posted before, but hadn't read it all the way through. Anyone know if I can do this with 30, 33, or 35 spline shafts, get a spool for the appropriate spline count to fix the carrier difference, and then what do I need to do, get the hub kit from Warn for that spline shaft? If I ran 33 or 35 spline would I need Dana 60 hubs and spindles? Any other help/advice on this?

Any one else have any other leads on a Warn Full Floater Kit, 30 spline, for my passenger offset diff rear Dana 44?

Thanks Guys.

 

The reason Dana 30 hubs are used is because the spindle will bolt right up to the axle tube on your Dana 44. I don’t know if the same is true of Dana 44 or even Dana 60 spindles but assume not since I’ve never seen it.
If I’m correct, that limits you to 27 splines on the outer end of your FF axle shaft. The inner can be up to 30 spline though. If you don’t have a D44 with a 30 spline carrier you can always get one, or better yet a locker.

 

Yeah, that is my plan is to put a spool in the rear end that will accept as large of a spline count shaft as I can aquire for this build-up. I may have to do some research and see if a 30 spline inner, 27 spline outer full floater kit with 4340 shafts will actually be all that much more beneficial than just putting 33 spline flanged semi-floater 1541H shafts in the rearend. Anyone else know where I can get the Warn full-floater kit? Thanks guys.

 

Warns kit had 30 splines on the outer end. The additional strenght of having an inner and an outer bearing on the full floater makes it hard to beat. I'm sure you could do a flanged axle setup cheaper than a full floater. Just depends on what you really need.

 

Just to let you know there is machine work involved in putting the 30 spindles on the 44 housing. Unfortunately they don't just bolt up. The back must be machined down to fit inside the tube and the inside must be machined to fit the axle through. Nickmil

 

this is the kit I used and installed in 1989
it is discontinued thru 4 Wheel Parts.
Other than the axles, I post it here for the Jeep part numbers that are used in the conversion.
Nick, do you know if these spindles have been machined ?
I didn't pay any attention during the install back then
the shafts are 19 inner, 27 outer
they can be removed without pulling the spindle
one could assemble the parts needed from a donor D27 frt axle.
then have the axles made by maker of your choice.
I don't know the maker of the axles in this kit.

 

Thanks for the info, but according to PartsMike and according to Dutchman the '67 D44 I have will not require machining to fit the 30 spline shafts through the tubes, nor will it require machining of the flange to fit bearings into. I do believe earlier model years did have both these problems, though, according to both sources above, and according to you, too, Nick, so thanks for the heads up, but 2 vs. 1 says I'll be okay, so hopefully that's the case.

 

Yes, I went through this exact conversation with someone a while back and from what I remember of that, you are correct.

 

I think what he’s talk’n ‘bout is item #16 of the attached diagram.



Its pressed into the spindle and needs to be cut out to make room for bigger axle shafts, though I’m sure Nickmil will expand on it as he has time.

 

The tubes and flanges of the housing do not need to be machined. The spindle must be machined to fit both the housing and to allow the axle shaft to pass through. That's why Warn built special spindles for this conversion. I know, I was involved in some of the prototyping and was building FF conversions before Warn was. Nickmil

 

Nickmil, got a couple questions hopefully you can answer. First, what is the largest spline count I can get into my rear housing without milling out the inside of the housing (30 spline, 31, 33, 35?) I'm sure those would all have to be about 1.31" diameter axles max, just was wondering about spline count, since I'm gonna get a spool for the rear end when I do this conversion anyway. Also, if, say, 33, or 35 spline will fit, does Warn make hubs that will bolt on to the outside of the Dana 44 spindle that would be used at the end of the axle that would accept the 31, 33, or 35 spline shafts? Lastly, what else do I need/where do I get the spindle from to fit the 44? Where there spindles for D44's with drum brakes that I could use off a super early Ford or Chevy, or how do I go about this? I figure if I do this and put my own stuff together, might as well make it as bullet proof as possible. Thanks for your help, Nick.
-Adam

 

I'm guessing here but I'd say 33 spline would be the biggest. The problem will be how much the spindles have to be machined to accept that large of a shaft and no one makes outer locking hubs or drive flanges that will fit a hub that will fit on a 44 housing. Warn used 30 spline drive flanges and locking hubs for their 44 ff kits but I'm not sure IF they are still available and if so how long they will continue to be so. My concern here is if you go that route and have a problem down the road will you be able to get parts.....
They did make some 60 ff kits that used 35 spline drive flanges and hubs and a few other companies are too but they simply are too large to fit on a 44 housing.
The old school way of building a ff kit for a CJ was to take a front CJ spindle and machine the inside and back side of it so there was a step that was a slight press fit into the housing for centering purposes. You have to machine the inside of the spindle to allow the axle to pass through or you have to have the axleshaft made with a necked down section through there that I feel weakens it more than I like. If you use a disc brake spindle they are plenty strong. I used a drum brake spindle on mine and have had no problems but disc brake spindles are thicker where the inner bearing slides on and would be a better choice. When I built mine the disc brake spindles were darn hard to come by so I used what I had readily available. Then just use the front bearing hub, brakes, and locking hubs from the front of a CJ. Works great. If you step up to '72 and newer locking hubs that gets a 27 spline outer and you can have the inners cut to 19, 30 or whatever spline count you need.
Another way to do this which is stronger is to use an internal spline hub set up. 1980 Ford Hub and Rotor works great for this. You need an early Chev disc brake spindle (up to '77 I believe, they are smaller od than the later ones) or Drum brake Wagoneer spindle with internal locking hubs. These both are the same part. These will still need to be machined. With this hub and rotor you can use a 1/2 ton GM or Jeep Waggie/PU caliper bracket and caliper for rear disc. Then with the right bearings and races you can use an internal locking hub which is stronger, have your shafts made and have disc brakes and a strong set up. The stock locking hubs for this application are 19 spline though, but hold up well. Again, IF Warn is still making the 30 spline FF hubs you could also potentially use those and have 30 spline outers. With a V-6 I feel the 30 spline inners and 27 spline or 19 spline outers are plenty strong. I've been running my setup for well over a decade with NO problems and I'm using the CJ spindles and hub and rotors. The key with these is using studs not bolts to hold the locking hubs on. For the strongest combination of parts and to assure future availability of service parts for the diff and hubs I'd go with 30 spline shafts, the Ford hub and rotor with either stock full time 4x4 front drive flanges or the 19 spline locking hubs (Warn Premiums, don't waste your time with anything else), and the necessary shafts. I'd also use the disc brake parts mentioned above. Be aware the Warn 30 spline FF locking hubs are different than the standard front internal locking hubs so the length of the shafts would be different depending on which hubs you used so figure this in when you decide which way to go. Somewhere at home I have all the bearing, seal, and race #'s written down necessary to do this. If you want I can try and find them. Nickmil

 

Sorry about the old post here.

I have a buddy with the warn kit on his jeep.

The problem we had was he blew out the long side lock.

It has a single piece splined insert that bolts in in place of the warn lock.
that side striped out and we found some old warn locking hubs night before our wheeling trip this weekend.
One of thouse popped right after we started wheeling and had to put the original extra insert back in.

It seems as thought the axle walks in to far.

He knows very little about the kit setup and is woundering about keeping it.



Can you guys school us on why its good and how to fix it so no more problems...

Also what are those inserts called and can you still get them?

Or should he get new warn hubs and it would be fine.??

 

I read on another Jeeping forum that Randy's Ring and Pinion has purchased the full float axle setup from Warn. Don't know if it's just a rumor. I guess a check with Randy's would dispel any rumors.

 

Herm sells kits now for full floating kits, one for stock carriers and one with splines for newer cariers

 

I called Herm right away when we found it broke.
Based on knowing what has been said.

He refered me to Randys R/P.

Will call on Tue.
Anybody have some more info on the Insert thing??