Vintage T98, D18 and Overdrive

Weekend rained here fierce. I think about 4 inches total. I took a good look at my existing t14/d18 combo...
The trans/bell adapter mounted in my jeep in front of the t14 is the same cast number as what came with this vintage t18 setup... Interesting. Pictures still coming. Laptop stinking it up currently.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Yes, that's the T14/T15 bell ... used for a lot of Jeep applications, including the T18s.

 

OK,
Got to spend a few hours in the garage. Not doing this for a living makes me double, triple check things... then re-review the diagrams after and I think I missed a blocking ring/thrust ring, so I get to double check.

Will double check my shaft end-play. Not sure I have 'enough' (likely less than 0.003" or less given my measurements) - may add another shim, retorque and try again. Dang. Sealed it up tight at the moment - I have one more seal if I can't rescue this one loose. (foresight to buy two sets of seals, I dunno).

I started about 11:30 Sunday morning. Wrapped up cleaning tools at about 5:30. I watched some Olympics in the interim. I'm guessing about 2.5 hours to there. I also am fiddling the Overdrive in there somewhere. Yeah, I had to backup in a few places and go again, but I'll call that 'test fitting'.

I still have to deal with the rear output, but I'd like to put the e-brake back on but I need to finish cleaning 44 years of grease and goop out of the backing plate and small parts then re-paint, new shoes and such. Good thing there is no rust there to deal with...

Here's some pictures...

Test fit of the race. (yeah, that's my story #3).


Test fit of the race. (yeah, that's my story #3).


Test fit of the race. (yeah, that's my story #3).






Test fitting the new twin sticks... liking it. I de-linked them for now. Independent. Noticed the detent balls are hard to move on the bench top with no spinning parts moving... I do seem to get H/L and Front / Neutral / Rear engagement ok, but I have to work the sticks while trying to not toss the whole thing on the floor.






Anyone know the needle bearing count per circumference? I think I counted 25 at each end, and I had two left over in my kit. Don't know how I'd get two more in there, as I had issues with them popping up until I got it all smeared around in there just so ... Frozen Vaseline did the trick. Used the Vaseline also to put the bronze washers in place and sort of help 'stick' them there where they need to be.

 

Looking at the photos, it looks like you did not put in the anti-rattle clips? Also in a normal (factory) set up, the two TC shift levers are the same length.

 

Excellent catch...

You're right, no rattle clips as I'll remove the shift levers again before installation. They're on the work table. I don't want to mess with trying to lift the tub over those levers, the shift lever for the transmission and the OD lever once I have it all in and mounted. That's how I took it off with a buddy and well, that's higher than I need to lift it again...

Once I have the transmission back together and mated, I've got to figure out how to put the OD lever somewhere in that area too.

Also, this is a twin stick kit I purchased from R&P, and I don't mind the levers being different size - especially now I've removed the interlock pill...

I may find some buttonhead stainless allen screws for the pan that's also not currently installed as I'd prefer to leave it off until I have it completely ready to go back together.

Wondering if the vintage knobs for the twin sticks had a HI-LOW and a 2WD-N-4WD marking? The small plastic ones are OK until I find something more interesting.

 

My twin stick kit came from herm and both sticks are different lengths.

I don't think the vintage knobs had markings on them, because willies had a sticker on dash saying what is what.


You will like the ability to use high and low and leave in 2wd, I use a lot to go down steep dirt roads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Not on my '47 - plain round black rubber knobs. I think they are 3/8" fine thread.

 

Qty of 48 rollers are required.
Qty. of 50 are generally supplied.

Normal yes, but only for for 1941-1953.
1953 -1971 CJ's have a longer in/out TC shift lever.

 

Excellent. I'm happier knowing I have two extra on planned purpose. hew: and on the knobs that's good info too. Have sticker for the dash also.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

This.
And believe me, it makes it much easier to shift between 2 WD and 4 WD with the longer shifter. More leverage and much easier to reach.


Sent from my iPhone

 

Yesterday's progress on the Overdrive disassembly, review and reassembly... wow.

So, there's a screw that's broken. Crap. How to get it out? don't want to drill it. Used a cheesy little 'eyeglass screwdriver' that comes in the 'free with coupon' from cardboard freight'. And a brass hammer, I tapped it out - freaking lucky.
These are 6x32 threaded screws. Osh had some stainless ones - two in two lengths set me back under $2.





These bearings are interesting. Never seen such things, less than about 1/8" thick. Glad, very, very glad they're mounted in a race.



This shows what happens when you use 'grease' to assemble - I assume. This stuff came out with some carb cleaner, a wire brush and a screw driver to get in the crannies. Then I hit it with a degreaser, hot water and then the air gun. I hit it with a little WD-40 afterward. Transmission assembly lube used to hold some of the small pieces together (blocking ring, bearing plates, etc.).














Note: where the shaft comes out, AA provided seals - there's supposed to be a small shaft seal here. There's also an 'o' ring just inside the housing. The shaft seal will not fit my 'vintage' unit unless I take it an have it milled out to fit, so I'll try a little permatex and another 'o' ring for the time being.




today will hopefully finish reassembly.

 

Not showing, but the countershaft for the gear cluster seems a bit grooved after I gave it a scrub with scotchbrite. May be 0.001 or 0.002, but it's not concentric around shaft. Not enough to catch your fingernail on, but you can feel the bump.

According to my TTC Tremac Manual for T18:
Will be looking for the countershaft (T18-3)
Will be looking for the reverse idler gear (1AT18-10)

and bearings / seals / etc. (may get the Novak kit)

Minor surface rust and spots here and there,

today I disassembled the T-18 case:

do you think the wear on the end of the main shaft shown here might be an issue? I think this is the end that the bowl gear from the overdrive attaches. Finger nail just catches the lip (I could measure it with calipers, but I didn't).





Couldn't see it here, but reverse idler was bunged.






enough rust in these needle bearings to be mud.


Surface rust. cleans right up with scotchbrite.






Bigger pieces missing than I expected.



MDG Stickout plus 1/8 on the tape


MDG stickout at 9.5"


Reverse idler gear and the needle bearings


Enough dirt and old 90wt holding them to the center shaft sleeve for the reverse idler.

 

Question:
I think I'm seeing replacement reverse idler gears with 17/20 teeth count. Think being operative.

Mine has 18/22.

Any thoughts on why/ what this may be? I'm short on info I can find with all the power of google.

Thanks
D


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Hi Dane,............How many teeth on your front input shaft? Is this a close ratio or wide ratio 6.32:1 low gear?..........Refresh my memory is this a Ford T-18 or one of the Jeep versions?

FYI on the Ford wide ratio 6:32 the reverse Idler is 17/20. As far as those other gears the rear small cluster gear that engages the reverse Idler and the Large sliding 1st and Reverse gears are the ones that take all the beating since 1st & Reverse are both non Syncro. Some hammering / flattening of those teeth at the entry or engagement point is pretty common.......small chips in teeth that can be tuned up with a small dremmel wheel are also within the realm of being acceptable. Depending on what box you have , some of these gears can still be found on the internet...........others are next to impossible.

 

All the replacements I've seen are 17/20 - which makes me wonder if I've found the rare Jeep Hen's teeth relative replacement parts.

I cleaned up the burs on the gear with a stone wheel on the dremel yesterday. Got to thinking it was like sharpening a chainsaw, and taking down the rakers without a raker gauge (it'll bite a little if too much is taken down)... a couple teeth are a bit farther back than I'd like, but may be if I can get a touch for putting the angle back in the teeth, I can clean it and then get a measurement on them. Was thinking a mill file would likely be like sneakers on ice.

Heading home here in a few at lunch to count teeth on the rest of the gears which may shed some light on things.

Should be wide-ratio, but I'll confirm with counting teeth (fyi: adapters are all jeep OEM from the Bell adapter, to the bell-transmission adapter, and the transfercase adapter), the stickout is 9.5" on the MDG and some prior discussion in this thread I need to digest a little more...

Back in a couple hours with counts on the MDG, the cluster gears and everything else related...

 

Here's what I counted...

MDG tooth count: 17
Cluster gear count: 17-27-36-43
Reverse Idler: 18-22
Second gear sync Assy: 43 outside
Second gear: 33
Third Gear: 24

case casting numbers:
T18-1B
WG DIV (under the T18-1B)

Shift Control:
T98-148-C
G22%3 (under T98...)

Service tag (transfer case I think):
300146-9
947383

 

Will what you have is the Jeep version.............the T-18 Ford Truck version has a 16-27-36-43 counter shaft and uses the 17/20 reverse idler...........I thought both were 7.44:1 reverse ratio?...............although the close ratio 4:02 Low gear came with 4.73:1 Reverse...........and yours had a cast Iron adapter up front which I thought only the 4.02 close ratio box had?.......Wow...........not sure................. Nick M would be the guy that would know.

 

Funny, yes. Hahaha. Not so much. Scratching my head here.

So, I'm trying to take myself to school on the gear ratio multipler - this is one time where google is not making it clear for me.

How do I setup the math to calculate the gear multiplers?

The math in my head is starting to make my eyes cross as I do long division.

What's the general principle with the idler gear, the MDG @ 17, and then the others for gear ratio math?

Is the lower idler gear number the 'reverse' and the high idler number the 'forward' factor?

 

The short answer on the Reverse Idler gear is that once engaged by the 1st / Reverse sliding gear it reverses the gear rotation..........so the truck will move backwards.

I'll look at that math..........the hard part is knowing what gears are engaged to get to the ratio...........your making me think now!

 

All Narrow Ratio T18's (4.02) use 23 tooth MDG's.
All Wide Ratio T18's (6.32) use 17 tooth MDG's.
All T98's (6.39) use 17 tooth MDG's.

9-1/2" stick out length MDG is from M-715 T98 transmission.
That MDG must be used with a 17-27-36-43 (T98 ) countershaft gear.

The 16-27-36-43 countershaft gear fits all WR T18
Countershaft gear makes no difference if it comes from Ford, Jeep or IH as long as it's the correct count.
In other words there are only 2 different countershaft gears for the T98's and WR T18's.
Those countershaft gears are:
T98 ........17-27-36-43
T18 WR ...16-27-36-43

The 43 tooth low gear (sliding gear) is only used with T98.
The 40 tooth low gear (sliding gear) is only used with T18.

WR T18 = 40 ~ 16 x 43 ~ 17 = 6.3235 low gear
T98 = .....43 ~ 17 x 43 ~ 17 = 6.3979 low gear

WR T18 = 40 ~ 16 x 43 ~ 17 ~17 x 29 = 7.44 reverse gear
T98 = .....43 ~ 17 x 43 ~ 17 ~18 x 22 = 7.8188 reverse gear