1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

TerraLow viable opiton?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by FinoCJ, Feb 28, 2016.

  1. Feb 28, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,714
    Would like to get better crawl ratio on my ECJ5. Currently, with T14 (3.1 first) D18 (2.46) and 4.88s it is just over 37. I do enough highway driving that I am very happy with the 4.88s with OD and don't want to change the axle gearing.

    Ideally, the best option is probably a T18 with 6.32 first (or SM465 etc). That alone would get the CR to over 75, but cost and the complication with adapting the T18 seems too much for me (both in terms of cost and required modification skills). Most of you know the requirements better than I, but at a minimum there is a need to adapt or modify bellhousing, OD bull gear change, floor pan mods to accommodate shifter, mods to the OD shift linkage, cross-member mods, and probably driveshaft length modifications. Not sure all of that and probably more is in my ball bark, and that doesn't include parts scavenging - or more likely a complete T18 with adapters from Novak or the like for a large cost.

    So, looking into the alternate option of looking into Terra-Low gears for the D18 - this would be a CR of (3.1x3.15x4.88) = 47.6 or a 27% increase. For what I estimate to be half the cost, and more attainable work from my part given that everything stays stock on the outside, the off-road needs of the jeep, it might be the right way for me to go.

    I hear and read rumors of Obrien's making a lower D18 gear option (I think 4:1). That would get the CR to 60 and I'd be good with that. They still around?

    Thoughts? ...thanks
     
  2. Feb 28, 2016
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    8,360
    I have the tera-Low 3:15 in mine, with 4.88's. It's great, but I also have an automatic.
     
  3. Feb 28, 2016
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    7,208
    What about noise?
    I've read that the Tera Lows are noisy....
     
  4. Feb 28, 2016
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    8,360
    Well yes, it is noisy.
     
  5. Feb 28, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,714
    Noise is low on my concern - its already noisy and I think its at the point where more noise doesn't really matter.

    Checked into the Jack O'brien Rockeater gears - too expensive for me probably and may require cutting the D18 case and welding it back to fit the larger gear. So guess it would be TerraLows...
     
  6. Feb 28, 2016
    eti engineer

    eti engineer Member

    Great Central...
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    601
    Just out of curiosity, what do you have for an automatic? Is there something that will mate up with a V-6 on one end and a D-18 on the other? If this is a possibility, I am thinking of trying to go this route. Or better yet, maybe I should just yank the whole drivetrain out of my Jeep and put something in there complete from fan to rear drive shaft. Then I could sell the current drivetrain complete.
     
  7. Feb 28, 2016
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    8,360
    TH350 from a Buick. Bolts right to the dauntless.
     
  8. Feb 29, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,784
    This really depends on what type of wheeling your going to do..............47:1 is really not much of a crawl ratio.........just saying. The T-18 or any variant with a 6:00 or more low gear with and OD behind the D-18 makes a pretty capable off road vehicle. Again depends on how you want to use it.
     
  9. Feb 29, 2016
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    3,505
    The 3.15 terra low has it's plusses and minuses.
    The 3.15 reduction ratio provides virtually perfect synchronization for use with most all jeep transmissions.
    The 3.15 gears will fit the big hole case with virtually no case modifications.
    The 3.15 will require use of a special (expensive) bowl gear on your Warn overdrive unit.
    The 3.15 gears will notably increase TC noise.

    I think 75/1 crawl ratio is about ideal for most common jeep needs.
    Figure 75 to 1 crawl ratio as being the beginning threshold for a true rock crawler.
    Anything less than 75/1 crawl is should be considered as a trail jeep.
    Example: a 60/1 crawl ratio would yield a highly capable trail rig
    A dedicated crawling jeep should use both transfer case reduction and a granny transmission.
    Tera low gears plus granny transmission gears will provide 100 / 1 and potentially lower gearing.
    A dedicated crawler will want to run 4.89 and preferably lower differential gears.
     
  10. Feb 29, 2016
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    23,596
  11. Feb 29, 2016
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    4,540
    I am running the Tera Low 3.15 gearset in D20 case, but I also did the AA tapered bearing conversion for the intermediate shaft. IMHO it's quieter than the old D18 setup I had with the roller bearing intermediate shaft. I had to grind a small flat on the 4wd shifter rod so it wouldn't contact the low range gear other than that no modification to the case was necessary.

    AA Tapered Bearing Conversion | EarlyCJ5.com
     
  12. Feb 29, 2016
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    3,505
    Posimoto, you running a D-18 or a D-20 ?
    signature says D-18
    I would expect a Tera low D-20 to run quitter without the taper intermediate
     
  13. Feb 29, 2016
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    8,360
    Mine is actually a D20 case...Anyhow, when the intermediate shaft needs service, it will get the tapered roller bearings. I did that on my other Jeep, and it was extremely quiet.
    Interesting, my transfer case with the Terra Low is mostly noisy on deceleration. It has 15-20K miles on it.
     
  14. Feb 29, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,714
    That is the problem...47:1 isnt all that great...but better than 37:1 I got now. 60:1 trail jeep is what I would love to have...but I am probably not in position to do it...guess i'd interpret that as its not worth the money for only 47:1...its frustrating when you hit the limit of either skills or expense.
     
  15. Feb 29, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,714
    Not a rock crawler but capable trail jeep would be ideal (60:1). Didnt think a new bull gear was needed for terra lows in d18?
     
  16. Feb 29, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,784
    James, Yes to go from 37-47:1 would really not have that much "bang for the buck" in money being spent..............
    If it was me I would again wait until you can get a Low Granny Gear 4-speed in there. ............... like this: 6.32x2.46x4.88 gets you 75:1 in low gear. And still gets you back to where you are now in 2nd gear...........split low gear with the OD and it's 56:1...........back in high gear on the freeway in OD your cruising with a typical factory stick gear at 3:66 final ratio..................best of both worlds.
     
  17. Feb 29, 2016
    Rralphs

    Rralphs Old Member

    Nederland, Co
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    270
    You won't need a bull gear you'll need a bowl gear since you have an overdrive.
    On a cj5 you can't have length like you can with more wheelbase (doublers). This will require you to do all you can at every place you can.
    Just the 3.15 by it's self gets you 22% reduction. Going from a t14's 3.1 to 6.32 gets 51%.
    Looking at bang for the buck and $300 some odd for bowl gear I think you'll find the tranny swap might look better.
    Looking at crawl ratio at the goal both wins. Also apply bang for the buck to O'brien's and see what you think.
    What I've heard the 4:1 O'brien's only need grinding inside the case. The lower sets need case cutting and welding.
     
  18. Feb 29, 2016
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    4,540
    I have the Tera Low D18 gears in a D20 case. If I understand correctly, all large hole cases are essentially D20 cases whether they are setup with D18 or D20 gears. D18 gears in a D20 case are sometimes referred to as a Super 18.
     
  19. Feb 29, 2016
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,529

    There is more to the equation that just the crawl ratio. Case in point: 2012 JKU Rubicon with a 76:1 CR and it still absolutely sucks in the rocks. Why? The 3.6L has no usable torque below about 1500 rpms and really doesn't come to life until about 2500. Net result is that I end up slipping the clutch a lot more more in that rig than in the 3B with half that CR on the same trails. The 3B engine will actually idle over just about anything at 500 to 600 rpm without hitting the accelerator or the clutch. Like previously posted, I don't think the Terelows are any more noise than the standard D18 needle bearings. I like my Teralow's but I would have the intermediate gear immediately machined for AA's tapered bearing kit.

    Personally, I can not see why the TeraLow's are even offered without that conversion. If one is going to spend $900 for a gear set, another $100 for tapered bearings doesn't seem out of line.
     
  20. Feb 29, 2016
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,714
    Agreed whole-heartedly that the granny low 4 speed is the best of both worlds - especially with 4.88s and OD. Just not sure I can make that happen financially or physically. But if 47 doesn't get me very far, then might as well fight the 37 for a while see what I can save as well as what I can learn and develop skill wise. Seems like I should probably estimate $2k minimum for a T18 (or like swap) and hopefully not destroy my jeep in the process...Its just ridiculously intimidating or maybe daunting of an undertaking for someone like me.

    thanks
     
New Posts