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Symptoms Of A Crack In The Block Vs. Gasket Leak?

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Charles Brown, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. Jan 8, 2020
    Charles Brown

    Charles Brown New Member

    Salem, OR.
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    I noticed some milky buildup in the oil-inlet and the oil cap, as well as water sitting in (what I think is the crankshaft?) at the bottom of the tube.

    Let me restart, I don't know all the terminology. I'm new to Jeep owner ship, but i'm having fun rebuilding it. The issue is my inexperience may be preventing me from noticing bigger issues. So hopefully this forum and all of you experts can lend me some of them there brains.

    I've replaced the radiator with a new one, hoses, thermostat housing (old one was cracked), and thermostat. I just noticed the water tonight. Thinking I may have spilled some in the tube pulling, coolant draining, reseating thermostat housing gasket (left a hole, squirted coolant everywhere when I started it), I changed the oil. Only to see water in the same spot minutes after starting.

    I haven't done a compression test yet, should do that tomorrow. However the confusion is the oil itself wasn't milky when I drained it. It was "dirty", looked like oil that hadn't been changed in a while despite putting fresh oil in only a couple weeks ago without driving it in the mean time. If I had an actual head gasket or intake manifold gasket leak wouldn't the oil be more milky?

    Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    Cheers,
     
  2. Jan 9, 2020
    58 willys

    58 willys Sponsor

    Millsboro, Delaware
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    If you pull the dipstick and the residue is milky white it could be either. What you are describing about the tube is it the dipstick tube you are talking about or the actual oil fill tube also what engine do you have? A lot of times the moisture you are describing is simple condensation in those areas. Have you noticed your coolant level going down since the radiator change?
     
  3. Jan 9, 2020
    Lockman

    Lockman My " Rosie" 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    White City, NY 14617
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    Hi & welcome,
    Read your post......& quoting The Part : " I've replaced the radiator with a new one, hoses, thermostat housing (old one was cracked) " ;
    IMO, if you've discovered a cracked thermostat housing , it was most likely caused by freezing.
    Check all around the engine block, for signs of rust. Water leaking thru a cracked block will leave a rust trail on cast iron. Hopefully you'll find a freeze plug or two that are Blown, That was one of their purposes . I hope it's a gasket ..... but either way, it appears that this Jeep was neglected previously ? Do you have any history on Her ? BTW, Pictures help us help each other alot.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  4. Jan 9, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    This "chocolate milkshake" in the fill tube is a very common sign in jeeps that have condensation in the crankcase. If the cooling system is functioning properly, it may be the result of too many short trips, and not getting fully warmed up often enough.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
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  5. Jan 9, 2020
    BobH

    BobH Member 2020 Sponsor

    Oviedo, Fl
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    I had the same thing happen to an old car that I only drove 10 min to work. I started driving it for an hour once a week and the problem went away.
     
  6. Jan 9, 2020
    Focker

    Focker That's what I do, I know things and I fix stuff. Staff Member 2019 Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    Switching to synthetic oil solved this issue for me. 2006 Dodge Dakota.
     
  7. Jan 9, 2020
    Maddevill

    Maddevill New Member

    Shingletown CA
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    What engine? I have a 2003 Dodge Ram 1500 with the 4.7. It gets major condensation at the oil filler port if not driven long distances. To the point that it looks like a blown head. It's totally normal on my truck.

    Mad
     
  8. Jan 9, 2020
    Focker

    Focker That's what I do, I know things and I fix stuff. Staff Member 2019 Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    PM sent.
     
  9. Jan 9, 2020
    Charles Brown

    Charles Brown New Member

    Salem, OR.
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    I'm talking about the actual oil fill tube. The engine is the 5.0L V8. I've seen other posts mentioning the condensation, but would the condensation remain in the engine despite draining the oil? I changed the oil after noticing some of the water in the oil fill tube, ran it again, and noticed water in the same spot after a few minutes. The other caveat is I have been running in short duration's since I acquired it. I've been rebuilding it in steps but haven't felt its ready to drive around yet, so those short bursts add to the condensation. ...it's also been sitting for at least 10 years.
     
  10. Jan 9, 2020
    Charles Brown

    Charles Brown New Member

    Salem, OR.
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    The reason it was cracked is the bolts were over tightened so the line was just cracked around the bit of housing the bolt sits in. Didn't strike me as being frozen at any point. However, the freeze plugs I can see (not the ones on the back of the block, any tips there would be awesome) aren't leaking at the moment. In fact as of last night there are no more coolant leaks that I can see from the outside (which is awesome). In another answer, I got this from my pops and it was sitting in his garage for ~10 years without being driven. Every now and then he'd start it up and run it for a bit but not drive it. Over time even those dwindled to it just sitting and not getting touched. Life happens, so is what it is at this point. I can post some pictures this evening to give you a better idea what im talking about.

    Thanks for the response!
     
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  11. Jan 9, 2020
    Charles Brown

    Charles Brown New Member

    Salem, OR.
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    I haven't driven it much as mentioned in another response, but now im worried to drive it if I have water mixed with my oil! I'm still getting it to that driving stage (have to repack some bearings). So I don't know what to do. The cooling system seems to be working, as far as I know. Coolants moving around, nothing seems clogged, etc. i'm not sure but what else could I do to ensure the system is functioning properly? I'm going to check coolant level when I get home, but that's been all over the place too. As of last night everything has finally stopped leaking. I've replaced a lot of the cooling systems components because they were all leaking in some form or another (old gaskets, thermostat and housing, hoses, original radiator!) so my levels have been all over the place. If the jeep is sitting without running will the coolant leak into the oil wherever or does it have to be running/under pressure to leak? Again, i'm a little worried to run it if its an issue inside but I guess I don't have a choice if I want to go down the checklist before pulling the header or intake manifold.

     
  12. Jan 9, 2020
    58 willys

    58 willys Sponsor

    Millsboro, Delaware
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    The short time your running it will cause the condensation you're describing short idling doesn't allow the engine to reach proper tempature thus allowing this condensation to build up. If you're not noticing a spike in tempature and the oil level is not increasing as well as coolant level not going down run it. Gunk makes a product you can add to your crankcase I believe its Engine Flush that will help flush some of this moisture out. Its petroleum base follow directions on can and drain oil and filter and replace
     
  13. Jan 9, 2020
    Charles Brown

    Charles Brown New Member

    Salem, OR.
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    Just so I understand what you're saying here, as long as the coolant isn't moving into the oil, changing both levels accordingly, most likely safe to run it?

    Is there any other way water (not coolant) can end up in the oil tube?

    Thanks a ton.
     
  14. Jan 9, 2020
    58 willys

    58 willys Sponsor

    Millsboro, Delaware
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    What you are describing is condensation it occurs when you run short runs basically. As long coolant levelnis maintaining constant & oil in pan level is not rising and looking like a milkshake your good to go. Drive it for a long drive and some of that condensation should start to clear up. The shop I use to work in we would take a latex glove remove radiator cap put glove over the fill on radiator start it up if that glove inflated most of the time you had a head gasket blown. All the 304 I've owned over 40 plus years never had I had a blown head gasket or a crack in the water jacket not saying you can't do to someone mistake.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
  15. Jan 9, 2020
    Charles Brown

    Charles Brown New Member

    Salem, OR.
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    Does condensation remain despite changing the oil?

    Thanks a bunch for the information.
     
  16. Jan 9, 2020
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    There is a tester - https://www.amazon.com/cooling-system-pressure-tester-Automotive/s?k=cooling+system+pressure+tester&rh=n:15684181

    I believe if you have water in the oil, you should also see oil in the water. No droplets of oil in the radiator, no worries. No steam in the exhaust, no worries.

    Really, I don't think you can tell a bad head gasket from a block crack without taking the heads off and inspecting both. Very often, block cracks are found at rebuild time when the block is magnaflux tested prior to machining. But you can rule out such a leak with one of the testers linked above. I'd expect a cracked block is very much less likely than a bad cylinder head gasket, though there are specific blocks and cylinder heads that are prone to cracking. AFAIK the 304 is not one of these. Could happen, if it was wildly overheated, I suppose. Also, the 304 is the smallest bore of this group of engines (304-360-401) and should have plenty of gasket between the cylinders and the passages. Again, not a common issue with these engines AFAIK.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
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  17. Jan 9, 2020
    Charles Brown

    Charles Brown New Member

    Salem, OR.
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    Thanks for the info, i'm not worried. I'm just understanding with the age of teh vehicle and how long its been sitting, that something like a head gasket could be an unsurprising answer.
     
  18. Jan 10, 2020
    Charles Brown

    Charles Brown New Member

    Salem, OR.
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    Well I went through some of the advice you guys gave and it seems to just be some condensation. I ran it for about 40 minutes and i dont see any more water sitting in the oil tube. Oil level went up a tad but I did add some cause it was a little under + expansion? oil looked good on the stick either way. I'll check the radiator in the morning, otherwise I think i'm good!

    ...onto the carburetor adjustment. I've never done that before so any advice there would be great. Maybe i'll look up some old posts try to find my carb on here somewhere. Thanks again.
     
  19. Jan 10, 2020
    58 willys

    58 willys Sponsor

    Millsboro, Delaware
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    On the carb I'm old school usually set it by ear but I have been known to use a dwell meter pretty simple. Hook dwell meter up turn your air mixture screws in till you notice dwell going down then turn them out until you notice a drop. Then turn in until you notice rpm increasing.
     
  20. Jan 10, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    I don't understand how fuel mix can alter dwell time?


    It is pointless and counter-productive to even think of messing with carb settings until a full tune up to factory specification has been done on cap, rotor, timing, points, plugs, etcetera. There is a logical sequence and the carb settings are at the end of the list.

    Do you have an FSM????
     
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