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Ross Sector Shaft

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Fireball, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. Jan 23, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    I'm getting ready to rebuild the Ross box on my V6 Cj-5. I know, I know, I should go to Saginaw, but the Jeep is too original to chop up. I've got my CJ-2 for that.

    After looking at various threads here and there, I'm wondering if there is any consensus on dealing with the Pins. The options I've seen are:
    • Grinding the swedges off the back of the existing pins, pressing them out, rotating them, pressing them back in and welding where the swedge used to be. This seems like a good and cheap solution, but it's unclear if welding the part will cause issue with heat treatment or cracking.
    • Heating the swedge until red-hot and turning the pins with vice grips. Again, it's unclear what the effects of the heating on the part will be.
    • Using John Deere pins. Ideally you could swedge them in place, but I'm not sure I can do that. Perhaps heating red hot and using an air hammer with a flat head? If not, welding the back side? It's also not clear the John Deere parts are dimensionally correct. I've only found speculation they would work, but not anybody having actually used them.
    I'd like to hear what's worked well for others or any reasons to cross some choices off the list.
     
  2. Jan 23, 2020
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher

    Western MA
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    I got the new John deere ones for my jeep and had a friend tig weld them in.
     
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  3. Jan 23, 2020
    Dave Deyton

    Dave Deyton Member

    Fuquay-Varina, NC
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    Oct 12, 2003
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    I rebuilt the steering box and realized the sleeves in the kit were too loose.
    A friend who is a machinist knurled the sleeves to make them fit, pressed them in, made new pins and welded them in,
    made some new head bolts that were longer for the lifting hook (M38A1), all for about $60,

    Money well spent.

    Dave
     
  4. Jan 23, 2020
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Western North...
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    You might give the seller, Quarter Ton & Military in GA, a call at (423) 762-5858 about this. Maybe it's possible the reproduction sector shafts they sell are made in USA?

    This thread I started a few years ago on Moses Ludel's 4WDMechanix site about rebuilding the V6 Ross steering box (with a lot of help from Moses!) covers that subject pretty thoroughly:

    Rebuilding the Jeep Ross TL Cam and Lever Steering Gear
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
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  5. Jan 23, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Yes! That's a fantastic thread. I was planning on following your rebuild step by step.
     
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  6. Jan 23, 2020
    TIm E

    TIm E Member 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
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    I have heard some feedback that the ones you have linked on ebay are actually good quality. Lots of issues with previous reproduction ones, but I think they had these re-designed and special made. Not a bad deal for $60 either, previous reproductions were close to $300 (and junk).

    I have ground the rivet-type head off the back, pressed the pins out, rotated 90 degrees, pressed them back in and tig welded them with good results. Basically factory new (as good as it ever was anyway).

    I have also replaced them with the John Deere pins for another member here and he was very pleased. I will say that the JD pins are dimensionally correct, but the shaft part of the pin that goes into the sector was slightly smaller than the orignals. When you reuse/rotate the old pins, you have to press them in, pretty snug fit. The JD pins were more of a slip fit and may have only required a light hammer tap. There wasn't play that I recall and the pin head does have a shoulder that seats against the face of the sector for stability. That, plus a good tig weld, they aren't going anywhere. Likely not even .001" of difference there and could be well within manufacturing tollerance, just the only difference I noticed.

    Oh, and if you do rotate original pins or go with JD, the weld is at the back of the pin and sector. I'm not a metalurgist, but I can't see enough heat making it to the head of the pin to affect the hardness.
     
  7. Jan 23, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    I tend to agree. Especially with TIG welding. There's a welding shop in town here. I'll have to talk to them about it.

    I've also got an e-mail in with Quarter Ton & Military asking about sourcing and quality control.
     
  8. Feb 12, 2020
    juffer

    juffer Juffer 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Netherlands
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    All mayor worldwide brands have it produced in China.
     
  9. Feb 12, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    That's what I figured. I found a used one from a member that I'm going to rotate the pins in.
     
  10. Feb 13, 2020
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Could you press the pin back in and center punch the shank to expand it to hold it in place? Just a thought?
     
  11. Feb 14, 2020
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher

    Western MA
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    I wouldn't, it will work loose. The originals are peened over.
     
  12. Feb 14, 2020
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    I thought pressed in would be the key, and that expanding the end would secure it same as peening it.
     
  13. Feb 15, 2020
    jeepdaddy2000

    jeepdaddy2000 Member

    Eagle Point oregon
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    Is is possible to heat and quench (shrink) the area around the holes when using the JD pins to tighten them up? Might help support the pins.
     
  14. Feb 15, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    I ended up getting a used shaft from a member and dropped it off at the machine shop yesterday to have the pins rotated.

    I'll add some pictures when they're done.
     
  15. Feb 18, 2020
    Seadiver5

    Seadiver5 New Member

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    I rebuilt my Ross box several years ago with high quality oem parts and it worked as good as new, Then within a year I converted to power steering because the Ross box working as good as new still sucks even when literally all the steering parts are rebuilt or replaced. I would suggest you do a (reverse ford power steering conversion) Here's a link: Power CJ Conversion Kits | Herm The Overdrive Guy
     
  16. Feb 19, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Yeah, I know. This Jeep is so original, I don't want to cut it up. In fact, I also bought a 71 CJ-5 that already has Saginaw steering that I don't feel bad about modifing freely for offroading. The '69 is keeping the Ross Box.
     

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