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Renegade 1 Wiring.

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by Carter75, Jun 20, 2019.

  1. Jun 20, 2019
    Carter75

    Carter75 New Member

    Seattle
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2018
    Messages:
    17
    Alright gents. Purchased a Walks harness and untaped it and added the R1 specific circuits for the ammeter. I have two R1 OE harnesses. I was able to use them as well as Mnemonics wiring diagram to get them correct. Problem is the Jeep will not shut off with the key unless I disconnect one of the gray wires at the second ballast resistor. It seems it is back feeding to the coil through the green wire at the bulkhead connection. Ammeter works, alternator charges. Any thoughts those of you with Renegades??
     
  2. Jun 20, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Aug 10, 2003
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    I know how to fix it, but I don't know why this would be specific to the Renegade... or maybe I do.

    Did the system without the ammeter have an alternator light? The alt light (AL) is an incandescent bulb, and the AL connects to the ignition and the exciter connection of the regulator. When the alternator is charging, both ends - ignition and exciter - are at full voltage and the AL is not lit. Turn off the engine and the alternator is now feeding the ignition through the alternator light. The AL filament has enough resistance that it blocks the alternator from backfeeding into the ignition. Remove the AL and the system will backfeed and not shut off.
     
  3. Jun 21, 2019
    Carter75

    Carter75 New Member

    Seattle
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2018
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    17
    I've read about that on several posts on this site but it is an actual Renegade and I can't find any evidence the Al was factory on them. Read many post about converting to one wire, or modern alternators as well. Don't want to do that on this one. Trying for a correct restoration. Will do that on the other R1 when I get to it. Did the alternators on these have a diode internally? Possibly shot allowing the back feeding? Have tried both OE alt's I have with no difference. Both could be shot though. Looking into having them rebuilt.
     
  4. Jun 21, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Just to prove the issue, you could add either a diode or a resistor or a bulb in the exciter wire to the regulator. The alternator bootstraps from the ignition power, but once it's charging it creates its own field current. There should be an exciter wire from the ignition to the regulator that needs to be interrupted (diode etc) when you shut the key off. There is no difference in this characteristic between the unitized alternators (1 or 3-wire Delcos) and the older alternators that have the regulator outside the alternator case - the only difference is whether the regulator is a separate unit or part of the alternator. The more modern Jeeps use a resistance wire made of nichrome to the exciter, and no AL. Does the same thing as the filament. The alternator only needs a trickle of current to bootstrap, so the resistance in the exciter wire allows that - but it limits the current enough to prevent backfeed through the exciter wire.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  5. Jun 21, 2019
    Oldriginal86

    Oldriginal86 Member

    Pasadena, Md.
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    Messages:
    447
    Move the excite wire to the accessory post on the ignition switch. This should separate the two circuits.
     
  6. Jun 22, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Maybe that will work. You'd need to make sure that the accessory post on the ignition switch goes high when the switch is at run, but is disconnected from the ignition when shut off. Seems unlikely since the later cars without the AL add a resistance wire to take the place of the AL filament. If they could have connected to the accessory post instead, they would have.

    Note that you can fix the run-on by simply disconnecting the excite wire, and that might be the result by connecting to the accessory terminal. The Delco alternators will self-excite from the residual magnetism in the field when spun fast enough - maybe that's what's happening.

    <later> Thinking about this, I expect you would not do this because it would energize the charging circuit via the excite wire when the key is switched to the accessory position. Not sure what side effects this would have - it would depend on the design of the charging system. Anyway, a resistance or diode is easy to include in the excite wire.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019

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