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M38a1, 134f To 225 Dauntless Swap Questions, Help Appreciated

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by WeeMan, Jun 20, 2016.

  1. Jun 20, 2016
    WeeMan

    WeeMan New Member

    Conway, SC
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    This my first post here, and I have been using these forums as a guest before trying to get all the info I could, but I still have some questions. To start off, I have a 1962 M38A1 equipped with the 134 F-head (runsgood but smokes), T90 trans, and Dana 18 transfer case. Also a Dana 27 front axle, and Dana 44 tapered rear axle. Its also stripped of its 24 volt system, switches, and wiring is hacked.

    My concern is hwy driving, off road I've heard nothing but good for the 134F, but on-road many say there is alot more to be desired. This jeep will go off-road sometimes but will most be driven on the hwy, and needs to go up to and maintain speeds of 60 mph. For that I've have been told the 225 Dauntless V6 will fulfill all my needs and also still do the occasional off-road venture.

    Now where I need help, I need all the info and pictures that yall may have to swap a dauntless into a M38A1 or early CJ5. I've found a complete dauntless drive train (motor-trans-transfercase) out of a CJ5, but the donor jeep isn't where I can look at it, and when the time comes all I will see is the drive train. Thanks for the help! Let me know what you think.
     
  2. Jun 20, 2016
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    Welcome Wee Man there's not much I can say as I did that conversion about 45 years ago. Sorry, no pictures. Search here, on the CJ2A, CJ3B sites. Somebody is always doing these conversions.
     
  3. Jun 21, 2016
    Twin2

    Twin2 wasn't me Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    welcome . it's doable , find a V6 frame and get the motor frame horns . you'll have to cut them off
     
  4. Jun 21, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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    You're going to need to either get the frame parts for the motor mounts, buy some or fab them. The easiest exhaust route is cj5 headers. the driveshafts will be different and don't even concern yourself with engine placement in relation to them since you're probably going to have to have custom ones made. Don't fear as they are relatively inexpensive and the ones yo have are probably worn anyway. I would do a saginaw steering upgrade at the same time as an engine swap as this makes exhaust easier. You will probably need to look at cooling capacity in the form of a bigger rad. This is not a simple easy swap and every one is different.

    With the 5.38 gear ratio in your differentials you're still going to pull the same RPM's out of your engine at 60 mph. Might be 3600RPM with 30" tires and the 5.38 ratio and in high gear. There are online calculators to figure this out.

    With an overdrive you can lessen this RPM by 25 or 30%. 60 MPH with a 225V6 is doable, but with stock steering and brakes it sounds very unpleasant. Brake upgrades to disk up front is easy. In fact I would do the brake upgrades first thing, then look at engine swaps.

    Good luck
     
  5. Jun 21, 2016
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Sponsor Sponsor

    Sheboygan
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    You will never get and maintain 60mph with a 134 fhead motor. I seen a guy on youtube put a turbo on his, but only for something to do.
    I would do the saginaw and brakes first, like 47v6 suggests. After that, engine swaps are fun
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
  6. Jun 21, 2016
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    A good place to start is the online articles about Jeep engine swaps on the Novak site - The Novak Guide to Installing Chevrolet & GM Engines into the Jeep Universals, 1946-1971 Pretty sure Advance Adapters has similar info, but in book form.

    Also some useful info on the CJ-3B page - http://cj3b.info/EngineSwap.html
    http://cj3b.info/Tech/EngineSwaps.html
    http://cj3b.info/Tech/PintoEngine.html

    The 4.3L Chevrolet V6 is also a very popular and practical swap for these Jeeps. These engines are widely available from the junkyard or by buying a donor vehicle complete. Plus they are available with factory fuel injection, if that appeals to you. The Jeep/Buick 225/231 is a little easier swap, because of the front-mounted distributor, and because you can use more CJ-5 parts like the engine frame towers. However, plenty of 4.3L swaps have been successfully completed, parts for Chevys are really cheap, and you can buy conversion frame towers from Novak and other places Mounts for Conversion Engines in Jeeps

    So the engine swap is pretty straightforward, although it wil take some money, planning, and work.

    You have three other issues - brakes, gears, and steering. The original 9" brakes will be inadequate at highway speeds, so your only choice is disks or drums. Assuming you have enough power to maintain highway speeds, with moderately tall 31" tires, your engine will be turning 3500 RPM at 60 MPH. While a modern engine will run nearly forever at that speed, it's going to be loud and sound like it's really wound out. Plus, at 60, you will not be keeping up with traffic even in the right lane. A Warn (Saturn) overdrive is an excellent and liberating accessory for these Jeeps. Certainly Saginaw steering will be an improvement over the original Ross steering, but I don't think it's essential for highway travel. However, the steering will figure in to the engine placement, there's no power option for the Ross steering, and it's not very durable compared to Saginaw steering.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
  7. Jun 21, 2016
    WeeMan

    WeeMan New Member

    Conway, SC
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    Thanks everyone for the input and help. I'm going to end up keeping the 134F in the M38A1 and add overdrive. That seems to be the best solution and from that point I can see if I want to swap the v6. I've spoken with a few people with early CJs with the 134F/T90 with overdrive that say they have no problem driving and maintaining 55-60mph and have been doing it for years.

    I am keeping the factory steering setup, and it is getting a rebuild. New bearings,worm gear, tie rods, pitman arm.....the works.

    I was looking at doing an 11" drum brake swap, but I believe for now I will keep my 9" drums and see how they do, I'm not running a larger tire just the stock 6.00x16 non-directional tire.
     
  8. Jun 21, 2016
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
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    You may have figured out by now that once you swap the motor, transmission, transfer case, steering, brakes, axles(for gearing) wiring, radiator and drivelines all you have left of the original Jeep is the tub, title and frame. Not trying to discourage you but just trying to point out the road that many have gone down before with the idea that I will just swap xxxxx and my old Jeep will drive like a Wrangler. It can be a very long road and many times can be sidetracked by an unwilling spouse, kids, job changes and life in general. I like to see old original-ish Jeeps be maintained and enjoyed as they are. Anything can be built and the Jeep that I drive is a totally assembled pile of parts that no two parts came from the same donor. The only part left from the Jeep that my title came from is the windshield frame, as everything else has been swapped.
     
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  9. Jun 21, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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    can I double like this post?
     
  10. Jun 21, 2016
    gunner

    gunner Member

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    Daryl summed it up nicely. Knowing where to stop is not easy- takes some thinking. Also, time and money are often spent on upgrades which are only rarely used. I'd like a T98 in my A1- gives an 85:1 crawl ratio right there. But I don't get a lot of opportunity to use that kind of gearing and so I'll stay with the T90 (although I think I know where a T98 is and I'm still tempted- see how it works:confused:?)

    But if you are going to plan on 55-60 (really, anything over 50mph), think about at least going 11" on the front brakes and something besides non-directional tires.
     
  11. Jun 21, 2016
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    Really ? Those of us who have done it for several years know better.
     
  12. Jun 21, 2016
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    Yeah, mine will do 60 mph. I just don't like to.
     
  13. Jun 21, 2016
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Lets be fair :) - 60 & even 65 is doable on flat ground & even slight rises but hills- It Ain't Happening.

    Now that being said back in my military days we ran jeeps in convoy at 55 with no issues at all & they *did*not* have overdrives in them. I know it sounds like the engine is going through hell but they'll run a long long time at 4K.

    H.
     
  14. Jun 21, 2016
    Alan28

    Alan28 Well-Known Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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  15. Jun 21, 2016
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor Sponsor

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    Any f head will do 60 when it's being towed on a trailer.:)
     
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  16. Jun 21, 2016
    WeeMan

    WeeMan New Member

    Conway, SC
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    How were the brakes at that speed? I'm not racing the jeep, but I'd like to run 55-60 mph and try to keep the jeep as original as possible. I've already priced everything for the 9" brakes, I'm re-doing it all (master cylinder, (all) lines, shoes, springs, backing plates, drums, wheel cylinders).
     
  17. Jun 21, 2016
    WeeMan

    WeeMan New Member

    Conway, SC
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    What's wrong with the Non-Directional tires? I'm trying the keep the jeep original as possible, (I'm keeping the 134F) also original in looks. I haven't seen too many Seabee M38A1s and that's what I have.
     
  18. Jun 21, 2016
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    My 3B with the V6, 5:38 gears, 11' brakes and an OD will go faster than 85MPH. I usually just putt along at 50 and check out the scenery. If I wanted to go faster, I'd be in the car with the AC running and listening to the radio.
    I think you get the idea that is is a doable conversion and many have done it and it isn't something you are going to do in a weekend. When I did my MB I ended up swapping out the entire drive train for stronger parts as I made it about two blocks with the old rear axle. It ended up being about a 3 month project but it was a lot more fun to drive after. The only reason I pulled the Lhead out is nobody could figure out how to keep the oil in it. People mention the snowball effect, It happens. If your Jeep runs well, don't screw with it and be happy at 50MPH. You could always buy another Jeep that has been converted to another motor and, you might find that it is less expensive than doing the conversion after you figure in all of the unthought of costs.
    Would I do it again, Maybe?
     
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  19. Jun 21, 2016
    Twin2

    Twin2 wasn't me Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    nothing if your after the stock military look .
     
  20. Jun 21, 2016
    gunner

    gunner Member

    Washington state...
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    Safety- they don't handle wet pavement well. Any slick surface for that matter. With the radials, I no longer cringe making corners. I still keep a set of NDCCs mounted up and ready to use- for parades and off-road.

    If you stay with non-directionals, the NDCC 7.00-16 size is correct for the A1

    55-60 in a stock A1 or 5 is perhaps in control. Maybe. Give it a go and see what you think. Lots of threads on this. Keeping it stock? No rollbar, then?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016

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