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Jeep or Ford T-18

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by armydan01, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. Feb 14, 2011
    armydan01

    armydan01 Member

    NE El Paso, Tx
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    These are my choices....1) Jeep T-18 (wide ratio) $100 needs rebuild or 2) Ford T-18 $175 recently rebuilt pulled 3 months ago. Now if I understand things correctly, I will need a new bell, adapter for D20 and adjust the tranny x-member and ds lenth. If I use the Ford I will also need to change the shaft length and need a special t/o bearing. Is this correct? I am leaning toward the Jeep T-18 because it seems like a lot less work/money. Would there be a reason to choose the Ford part (better quality or cheaper to convert than rebuild the Jeep part). BTW I read the jeeptech article on the Ford swap and it left me more confused than anything. Thanks for the help. :flag:
     
  2. Feb 14, 2011
    bkd

    bkd Moderator Supreme Staff Member

    K-Town Tenn.
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    the Jeep T18 needs a longer adapter to work compared to the ford (thinking 3-4" longer)......I run a jeep T18 but have a cj6........LOTS more Ford T18's availabe for future parts/rebuilds. Had a heck of a time finding parts for mine when it needed rebuild, and cost me BIG to get the parts.....
    Ford IMHO
    Jim
     
  3. Feb 15, 2011
    DrDanteIII

    DrDanteIII Now with 95% more running jeep.

    Milford NJ 08848
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    is it a cj t-18? IF not, it doesn't really matter which one you go with.

    as far as parts and strength they are interchangeable (more or less)
     
  4. Feb 15, 2011
    LarryD

    LarryD Member

    Gallup NM/ 4 Corners
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    Not all Jeep T18's are created equal, If it came out of a PU or Wagoner it will require a different input shaft which means at least some disassembly. If you go with a Ford 2wd T18 you will need a replacement main shaft and adapter. Quite a bit of disassembly.
    I attached a link to Novak's Web site, there is more information there.

    http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t18_t19.htm
     
  5. Feb 15, 2011
    Sparky74cj

    Sparky74cj Member

    Naches, Washington
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  6. Feb 15, 2011
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    The main advantage of the Jeep T-18 is that already is adapted to a transfer case.

    The transmission-to-transfer-case adapter is the main expense of this conversion.

    The only reasons to chose the Ford T-18 are a) the Ford front pattern does not require any hole drilling to bolt to the Jeep bell, and b) there is no Jeep T-18 available.

    If this is a wide ratio Jeep T-18, the Jeep transmission is the clear winner.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2011
  7. Feb 16, 2011
    aallison

    aallison 74 cj6, 76 cj5. Has anyone seen my screwdriver?

    Green Cove...
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    As asked above, what is the T-18 out of? If it's a CJ, it's basically a bolt in. anything else, Ford or Jeep, needs some internal swaping done......
     
  8. Feb 16, 2011
    JeepManEd

    JeepManEd New Member

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    Hey Dan, you at Fort Bliss? My daughter is a medic there. I have lots of experience with t-18s. The Jeep one unless its out of a cj (and that would depend on what year CJ.) The ones out of 74 75's would be a bolt in, as long as you have the 1 inch adapter to the bell housing. If its out of a newer cj like 76 to 79 you can bolt it in by using the 76 up bell housing. As for the Ford one, you will need either an advance adapter for the transfer case, + a 76 or newer bell housing. If its out of a Wag/truck you will need to change front shaft and get correct bell housing/adapter still.
     
  9. Feb 17, 2011
    armydan01

    armydan01 Member

    NE El Paso, Tx
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    Thanks for all the replies. I assume the Ford T-18 is a 2wd version since the owner said it did not have a t-case attached. The Jeep T-18 is from a CJ but does not come with the adapter or bell. Due to the expense, it looks like like this will either not happen or be put on the back burner for quite a while. How about a T-176/D300? The 176 comes with the bell for $100 and there's a D300 for $150. I really want a 4 spd but appearantly can't afford to go the T-18 route. Any advice on this swap, is it even a viable option? Would this combo be too long? And finally, the clutch gets paired with the tranny and the flywheel gets paired with the engine, correct? Thanks for the help. :flag:
     
  10. Feb 17, 2011
    armydan01

    armydan01 Member

    NE El Paso, Tx
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    Jeepman, I am out at Ft. Bliss. The CL ad says its out of a 75 CJ w/o bell and needs rebuild. I was under the impression that I could use a 76+ bell regardless of the year. Sounds like I would need yet another adapter, now I know why Timgr said I would be doing good to do a T-18 swap for $1000. Any input on the T-176/D300 combo? Thanks :flag:
     
  11. Feb 17, 2011
    DrDanteIII

    DrDanteIII Now with 95% more running jeep.

    Milford NJ 08848
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    75 cj t18 will have a 4:1 first gear. A ford t-18 will have a 6.32(?) 1st. Big difference. However, for the right price, the cj close ratio t-18 is still a great upgrade.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2011
  12. Feb 17, 2011
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    To me, the '75 CJ Jeep T-18 is definitely worth $100. There is a transmission adapter (plate on the front) and a transfer case adapter (plate on the rear).

    If only the front adapter is missing, you can probably find that plus the bell for another $100 or so. Then another $200 or so for rebuild parts, puts you around $400. Clutch parts, driveshaft changes, floor pan changes... figure another $300. That seems very affordable to me. All these bits and pieces add up.

    The T-176 and D300 is a good combo. The T-176 is a medium-duty transmission, and should be fine, depending on your driving habits. But I would not swap in the T-176 just to get rid of your current 3-speed. If you want a stronger transmission, a T-15 3-speed from a CJ will bolt in, and will be quite a lot stronger than the T-14 you have now. That would be a much simpler upgrade than any of these other transmissions.

    Why do you want to change transmission?
     
  13. Feb 17, 2011
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    There are something like 12 different input shafts for various T-18's, at least 4 or 5 for Jeeps alone depending on year, application, first gear ratio, etc. the Ford T-18 is a virtual bolt up to the '76 and up bellhousing.

    If the Ford T-18 is in good shape, and you can pick up the Jeep T-18, I'd buy them both, use the Jeep output shaft and trans to transfer case adapter, drill and tap the 6 holes on the back of the Ford case, plug the bottom left hole, and use a '76 up bellhousing. You will need to do driveline mods regardless. The T-150/176 bellhousing needs no mods for the Ford case. The T-4/SR-4/T-5 case needs a few holes drilled and tapped but the bellhousing has the boss for it.

    The T-176 is a decent medium duty transmission that shifts well for street driving. Check the shifter top for wear, especially around the pivot pins for the shifter cane. If you need a heavy duty trans for hard core use, I'd pass on it.

    The Dana 300 is a great transfer case with a very nice 2.62-1 low range. They are stronger and quieter than a model 20 imho. Up here they go for $275-$300 for a core. There's a reason the Atlas and STAK transfer cases are design based off of it.
     
  14. Feb 17, 2011
    armydan01

    armydan01 Member

    NE El Paso, Tx
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    DrDante- The ad says wide ratio(6) vs. the close ratio (4). Timgr- I will be driving a lot more highway miles and I figure that the extra gear will be more helpful. I am not so much worried about the strength of the tranny itself, as this will be a dd with occasional offroading in the desert. I wish I could afford to buy both T-18's to make this work, but what really is putting this out of my reach is the cost of the adapters. The wife really wants me to get it out of the garage and drivable. Since the tranny/x-case are already out and need a rebuild, I am trying to upgrade. The kicker is the upgrade needs to be around the same price as the rebuild. I foolishly thought that I could do a T-18 swap on the cheap, but with what is available that doesn't seem likely. I may not get a 4 spd, but I am definately getting an education. :flag:
     
  15. Feb 17, 2011
    aallison

    aallison 74 cj6, 76 cj5. Has anyone seen my screwdriver?

    Green Cove...
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    The difference between the two trannys is the first gear. The final drive will be 1:1, same as the T150, etc. On the road, the first gear of a 6.32 T-18 is useless. You will take off in second gear all the time. It will be basically a 3 speed on the road.

    If you want an on the road tranny, you really need somethng with a overdrive. None of the mid 70's trannys will have that IIRC.bunny with a pancake
     
  16. Feb 17, 2011
    armydan01

    armydan01 Member

    NE El Paso, Tx
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    That's true, however once I take off that leaves me 2 gears to work through w/T-14, or 3 working gears with a 4 spd. Especially with the highway driving, it seems better to have 3 gears close in ratio vs. 2 gears farther apart in ratio. Am I thinking wrong? :flag:
     
  17. Feb 18, 2011
    JeepManEd

    JeepManEd New Member

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    Dan if the t-18 is out of a 75, your closer than think. Tmgr is right, for $100 its worth getting. The adapter on the back and the out put shaft are worth $200-$300. You could get the ford t-18 and drill and tap the back with ease. Use 75 out put and adapter to convert the ford. I have built 20 + of these. If you can purchase the 76 up bell housing...(t-176 will work.) $400 or so and your there.
     
  18. Feb 18, 2011
    DrDanteIII

    DrDanteIII Now with 95% more running jeep.

    Milford NJ 08848
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    Going to a t-18 only gives you a lower first than your current t-14.

    T18 ratios
    1st: 6.32(wide) 4.0(close)
    2nd: 3.09
    3rd: 1.69
    4th: 1

    T-14 ratios:
    1st: 3.10
    2nd: 1.61
    3rd: 1

    So really the advantage to the 4 speed is better low speed performance. For speed above ~15 to top speed, performance is more or less identical between the two transes.



    But that doesn't mean that a wide ratio wouldn't also be a great upgrade.



    FWIW, a wide ratio jeep cj t-18 around here goes for upwards of $450-500 without a bell or t-case.
     
  19. Feb 18, 2011
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Well, it's true that the wide ratio T-18 (ie the truck transmission with a 'granny gear') does not give you another usable gear on the street.

    However, both the close-ratio T-18 ('71-76 CJ) and the T-176 will give you different ratios than the granny-gear T-18.

    close ratio T-18 1:4.02 2:2.41 3:1.41 4:1.00 R:4.73
    wide ratio T-18 1:6.32 2:3.09 3:1.69 4:1.00 R:7.44
    T-176 1:3.52 2:2.27 3:1.46 4:1.00 R:3.52

    The big difference on the highway will be the downshift from 4th to 3rd on the highway will be more useful. You won't have to wind out the engine so much when you downshift. To have a usable downshift on the highway, you want something like that 1.4 3rd gear.

    The T-176 is more like a passenger car transmission (being a re-purposed passenger car transmission), and shifting the gears will seem more car-like.

    The T-14 (which the OP has) is particularly bad in this respect:
    T-14 1:3.10 2:2.61 3:1.00 R:3.10

    With that 2.61 2nd gear, downshifting really winds out the engine, and the 258 torque peak is so low that it doesn't make great power when you wind it out. I had one of these combos in a '75 CJ-6, and it was fine on level, open highway, but hilly country really slowed me down.

    A T-15 has better ratios IMO.
    T-15 1:3.00 2:1.83 3:1.00 R:3.00

    If it were me, I'd buy both those transmissions and put them together, as Nick suggests. The OP is mistaken that he would need additional adapters with that combination, and does not understand the issues. Or else buy the missing parts for the Jeep T-18. Again, this will be way cheaper than buying aftermarket adapters. Still, I think the OP is just dreaming if buying both of those T-18s is out of his price range.
     
  20. Feb 18, 2011
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    As I see it you simply want or perhaps need a 4 speed.
    AMC already solved that problem for your model/vintage of Jeep by installing the optional close ratio T18.

    I suggest that you first consider installing the optional CR T18.

    Realize that the first gear ratio (4.01) becomes an important factor.
    You will need to reconsider your tire diameter and final drive ratio which is also relative to the 258's RPM.
    258 cranckshaft velocity will determine MPG efficiency and also effect the engines service life.
    Therefore you need to consider the maximum sustained speed for your type of driving.

    If the factory option does not meet your needs you should then consider a "trans-vintage" modification.

    See more detail on Jeep modifications here: http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/index.php?showtopic=2591
     

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