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It started with an alternator upgrade......

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by 74CJ5 Renegade, Mar 1, 2016.

  1. Mar 1, 2016
    74CJ5 Renegade

    74CJ5 Renegade Member

    Houston, TX
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
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    Well, I was having an issue. Every time I took the Jeep for a ride the battery would not be able to crank the engine over. I have a stereo system on the Jeep with an amp, CD changer and a sub. So I decided to upgrade to a Powermaster alternator. Simple enough!

    When I got into installing the new alternator it is a bit larger than the stock unit. So I looked into ways to move the alternator away from the block. The CVF Racing bracket looked like a good alternative so I ordered one of those. While I was under the hood I noticed that my water pump was leaking from the weap hole so I ordered a new aluminum one from Flowkooler.

    To get at the water pump I had to remove the radiator... decided to upgrade to an aluminum 3 row radiator while was at it.

    After I bought some stainless steel bolts and had the timing cover scraped to put on the new water pump I noticed there was some gunk in one of the large bolt holes. One of the ones next to the coolant outlet. The stuff I was pulling out was damp. Bad timing cover gasket. Oh boy... and I'm taking more of the Jeep apart!!!!

    That is where I am now.. I am looking into buying a new timing cover from Bulltear with the gaskets and oil filter adapter & the seal installed.


    Questions for y'all much more knowledgeable than I am:

    • Is it challenging to re-install the distributor? If I replace it back exactly how I took it out should there be an issue? (no clue on installing a distributor!!) I am also probably going to buy the Pertronics Ignitor II to get rid of the points.
    • With the new timing cover and oil filter adapter, should I have any clearance issues? I do know that I need to pack the gears with petroleum jelly to make sure there are no issues on startup.
    • Can I install the water pump to the timing cover on the bench to make things a bit easier? I know I can only install the lil bolts when I do so. I was going to use a small bit of rtv on both sides of the paper gasket.
    • Can I install the timing cover gasket to the timing cover with a small bit of rtv prior to installing the timing cover so it stays in place? if so, should you let it dry or wait till it gets 'tacky, then install the cover?
    • With the oil filter adapter what are the midplate gasket, stainless steel midplate? It looks to me that the adapter has one gasket and then bolts to the timing cover. Where would the midplate go??
    • With my alt clearance issues is there a smaller oil sending unit available that wont take up so much room? That or I might get a angled npt connection to scoot it over.
     
    Shad Rogers likes this.
  2. Mar 1, 2016
    Focker

    Focker Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere Staff Member Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    Great questions.

    Tim will be here soon...Tim?
     
  3. Mar 1, 2016
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Ok, in order...

    Distributor installation. As long as the rotor points to where it did before you remove it, then you are fine. Really, you are better off understanding how the distributor goes in and why, so that you can always put it in the right place. Note that the slot in the oil pump gear must line up with the tang on the bottom of the distributor. Use a long screwdriver to turn the oil pump gear so that the distributor will seat down completely, with the rotor pointing in the right direction.

    If you simply replace the timing cover and adapter, you will have no clearance issues with the factory alternator. With the replacement alternator, you are pretty much on your own. You can either pack the gears to promote priming, or turn the oil pump with a priming tool, through the distributor hole.

    You could put the water pump in place on the cover, but I think it will be more difficult that way. Installing the timing cover and water pump is not difficult. A thin coat of RTV on the gasket is fine.

    New timing cover? Why are you installing the midplate? The midplate is used to correct for gouges in the oil pump cover. It is more important to measure the clearance of the timing gears with the timing cover, than anything else. The timing gears should sit proud (protrude) of the timing cover slightly, and the gasket should be thicker than the amount the gears protrude. The critical measurement is the gear end play. Read read read the TSM, and follow their instructions for evaluating the timing gear end play.

    If you use the midplate, I believe you need a gasket on both sides. The midplate is supposed to substitute for the (gouged?) oil filter adapter surface. All it does is provide a flat surface that is more durable than the oil filter adapter. It is still up to you to adjust the gear end play (using different thickness of gasket, or lapping the timing cover) so that the gears have the proper end play. This is vitally important to your oil pressure.

    Note that some of these AMC V8s have bad cam bearings, and resulting low oil pressure. Refurbishing the timing cover will not help them.

    Can't help you with the new alternator. IMO you'd be better off with a parts store Delco 10SI than some monster alternator. The 10SI would make plenty of juice for your stereo. JMO. Read here --> Catalog
     
    Dickster and Shad Rogers like this.
  4. Mar 1, 2016
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok Sponsor

    Tulsa, OK
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    Focker is also our Emcee besides being our website guru
     
    Mark T., Shad Rogers and Focker like this.
  5. Mar 1, 2016
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    I would check the stock parts as Tim said the aftermarket covers aren't of the greatest quality. bulltear has nice stuff but could be a lengthy lead time I waited two months for a filter relocation kit.
     
  6. Mar 1, 2016
    Focker

    Focker Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere Staff Member Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    I could have just clicked "Watch Thread" but what's the fun in that? :D
     
  7. Mar 2, 2016
    74CJ5 Renegade

    74CJ5 Renegade Member

    Houston, TX
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    Tim... Thanks for the reply!

    I only mentioned the mid-plate cause it comes in the kit from Bulltear. Good tip on the timing gears. I will certainly check that.

    I'll keep y'all posted on my progress! (And a few more questions!!)
     
  8. Mar 2, 2016
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    If you have not bought the timing cover kit yet, I suggest you look at threads online about refurbishing the timing cover. The BullTear parts are likely the best aftermarket parts you can buy, but I would prefer the factory cover even if I had to refurbish it. The man thing is to have the right gear end play, and no gouges in the oil filter adapter.

    What is your oil pressure now? Why do you think you need a new timing cover?

    Start here - AMC V8 Timing Cover

    then go here - V8 timing cover/Oil pump refresher. pic heavy. - International Full Size Jeep Association
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
  9. Mar 2, 2016
    turbogus

    turbogus Member

    Albany, Oregon
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    One thing of note regarding the Flowkooler, make sure you use the enclosed gasket, it provides the clearance nessesary for the impeller blades and disc to keep their distance from the face of the timing cover. If you lose that gasket you can double up with stock gaskets as I did, lost the damm Flowkooler gasket.
    Also if you need to re-clock your distributor as I did (the vacuum plenum was rubbing the heater hose) it's not so tough to get the distribtor realigned. Just make sure to use a long flat bladed screwdriver to match up the oil pump drive gear, you can check the orientation with a flash/droplight. Just maintain the rotor with the cylinder no. 1 cap terminal (you can mark the disrtibutor case with a Sharpie) when you set the distributor in and you've got it made. It's way easier than it sounds.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
  10. Mar 2, 2016
    zila

    zila I throw poop

    Rock Springs,...
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    The journey of a thousand miles begins with just a single step. Jeeps are like that too
     
  11. Mar 2, 2016
    Jeepenstein

    Jeepenstein Me like Jeep.. Sponsor

    Bucksnort, TN
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    Mine began with a hydraulic clutch upgrade and 10 years later I still have a big pile of parts that used to be a Jeep.. Tim pretty much covered the rest haha..
     
  12. Mar 24, 2016
    74CJ5 Renegade

    74CJ5 Renegade Member

    Houston, TX
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  13. Mar 24, 2016
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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  14. Mar 24, 2016
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Great color.
     
  15. Mar 25, 2016
    Focker

    Focker Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere Staff Member Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    Very nice.
     
  16. Mar 25, 2016
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Sponsor Sponsor

    Chico CA
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  17. Mar 25, 2016
    74CJ5 Renegade

    74CJ5 Renegade Member

    Houston, TX
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    Thanks fellas! I'll post some under-hood progress pics this wknd!
     
  18. Mar 26, 2016
    Focker

    Focker Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere Staff Member Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    Please do.
     
  19. Mar 27, 2016
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    Project creep can happen anywhere. I went to repair a few loose tile in the shower and thousands later, new bathroom and new vinyl in the bath and kitchen. Of course, new baseboard, window and door case and new ceramic tile in the laundry room, new laminate on the kitchen counters and of course, paint and drywall work. I don't even have a woman around to tell me what to do.
    Went out to fix a rust spot on the 3B. Two months later, no rust anywhere and a fresh paint job along with a new rear cross member and bumper with a reciever hitch
     
  20. May 30, 2016
    74CJ5 Renegade

    74CJ5 Renegade Member

    Houston, TX
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
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    239
    Ok.... Grill is off, harmonic balancer s off, distributor is out, oil filter & adaptor are off. The timing chain cover will wiggle up top but will not move on the bottom and won't come off.

    I have taken out all the bolts including the two front oil pan bolts. Have I forgotten to take out a bolt???

    Thanks in advance!!!!
     

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