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I Am Stuck.

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by JeepinLee, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. Sep 5, 2019
    JeepinLee

    JeepinLee New Member

    Michigan
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    Well guys I dug myself into a mental hole here and can’t figure a way out. A year or so ago I picked up a cj5 from a family friend that has a seized motor. Since then I’ve collected a bunch of parts including a dauntless with trans and tcase, 3.73 axles, Dana30 for the front, V6’s drive shafts, V6’s radiator, along with a bunch of other random parts.

    Now I’m stuck between selling everything I’ve collected and finding a original f134 to replace what I have and preventing project creep or going through all the work to get the dauntless in. Really can’t decide what to do here. Trying to prevent a massive project here.
     
  2. Sep 5, 2019
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    I live South of...
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    Welcome from Michigan, Detroit area. I have a 64 f 134 that I reconstructed with a V 6 donor. I am going to give my thoughts just suggestions, so I am not telling you what to do just trying to help. First you need to decide just what you want to do with your Jeep, drive it on the street, take it on the fire trails, or make a Mod out of it.
    I keep mine up North at the cabin, but ride the trails and cruise the two lane roads both. I like the F 134 for what I do, but it is limited, top speed is around 55 to 60 mph. It is great for driving on the fire trails at 20, 25 mph, and forest viewing. But the speed limit up north on the M roads is now 65 mph, making it hard because everyone zips around me. I put the 3:73 axels in mine for the larger brakes and drivability on the black top roads. I like the F 134 for the original Jeep feel. It's like driving a Tractor and the fun of the old school mechanics and simplicity. If you want to drive it on the street more than on the trails you should probably go with the V 6 just for the speed factor. If you do you should probably go with a disc break conversion, the guys on this site are great for help with anything you need to know about what ever you decide. There are conversations every day about changing an F 134 to a V6 or Vise versa. Good Luck what ever you decide to do. Rick, By the way I know where there is a complete V 6 Grill with everything in it lights, turn signals, and radiator, complete if you go that way.
     
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  3. Sep 5, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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    Build it if you have time. The v6 is more fun than the fhead. The fhead is just fine on the trails. The most important part of the drivability and safety of these jeeps is steering and brakes. Thats where I would concentrate first.

    You say the fhead is seized. why? how bad and is it repairable? Maybe sell the 225 to offset the cost of the fhead rebuild?

    Seriously, brakes and steering are paramount on todays roads.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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  4. Sep 5, 2019
    kenb

    kenb Member

    Detroit
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    I'm enjoying the heck out of the F134 in mine. I don't see where more power would enhance my enjoyment of the Jeep. It's a slow vehicle and that's the point. I am adding an overdrive this winter so I can be more compatible with traffic on the 55mph roads (about the only paved roads where I live). Since I have 5.38 axles I need the overdrive for gearing to cruise above 45. I don't like to run the F head continuously above 2700 rpm. At 45 I have a lot of throttle left so I'm hoping I can manage 55 with an overdrive.
    I live in southeast Michigan where it's as flat as a table. What part of the state are you in? If you live in a hilly area you may want that extra horsepower.
    Have you diagnosed the engine you have? I bought a scrap jeep with a F head that was stuck just from sitting. After an oil soak it broke free and started up. Seems like a good runner.
     
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  5. Sep 5, 2019
    JeepinLee

    JeepinLee New Member

    Michigan
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    I will definitely be upgrading to disk brake in all 4 corners. Not a fan of drums but being a younger guy and not having experience with them probably doesn’t help. As for steering not sure on that. Power steering sounds nice but feel like it would get rid of the experience of cruising on of these old Jeeps around.

    With the f head I’ve put numerous different thing down it to try and get it to break free but can get it to spin. Haven’t taken it apart yet put for the cost I don’t really see the point in rebuilding it.

    I live in the Macomb area of Michigan so not to hilly but I bring my jeeps everywhere across the state. Really just want to make this thing a cruiser for dirt roads, running around town and random summer car shows. Not really hardcore off road but it will be taken off road mostly st. Helen area and Drummond island.

    I do have a V6’s Frame to I thought about using and just moving my body to. I just have a bad habit of taking things to far.
     
  6. Sep 5, 2019
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Watch for "Jeep the Mac" it is in the spring. I went two years ago, hundreds of Jeeps, first day is around St. Ignis, and Mackinaw, second day is on Drummond Island. You get a ferry pass for the second day and get to drive the trails, and get dirty. It is a Great event. My Cabin is up by Atlanta.
     
  7. Sep 5, 2019
    PeteL

    PeteL Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    My personal belief is that keeping stock configuration, or close to it, vastly simplifies owning and operating any vintage vehicle. Every mod begins a cascade of complexities in building, maintaining, and sourcing parts, etc.

    I enjoy my F-head around town and in the woods, but I agree a V6 may be better for road use. But if I wanted a six, I'd try to find a jeep that came with one.

    On the other hand, many people obviously enjoy the challenge and rewards of creating their own unique vehicle from scratch.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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  8. Sep 5, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    well said!
     
  9. Sep 5, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

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    I would NOT put disks in the rear. I would keep the stock drums or go 11". Ideally 11" rears from a doner with E brake ability. The fronts can be 11" drums or disk. I went disk because it was cheaper than drums.

    If your current engine is garbage, you have NOTHING to lose by trying to get it running. Pull off the valve covers and take a look at your valve train. Take out the plugs and pour some ATF or PB blaster in there, screw teh plugs back in and let it sit for a week or 2. Rock the crank back and forth with a brake bar until it frees up or doesnt. If it won't, take the engine apart and see how it went together. If its garbage, you cannot hurt it, only learn from it.

    Another option is to build the V6 on the extra frame you already have and make a roller out of it.. The tub and body parts might just jump off what you have now right onto it.....:whistle:
     
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  10. Sep 5, 2019
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

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    X2 on Chris's comments above! The Dana 30 might already have front discs, but the rears are fine with drums. As Chris suggests, slowly build up the V6 frame with the axles and Dauntless, maybe adding a Saginaw steering box. In the meantime, see what it takes to get the 134 running. It might not be that involved. The first thing I would check on either/both engines is that they are not cracked from freezing, before you get in too deep.
    -Donny
     
  11. Sep 5, 2019
    JeepinLee

    JeepinLee New Member

    Michigan
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    Why not have disk in all 4 corners? My tj, jk, and pick up all are set up that way. My tj I converted to rear disk brakes. Just wondering why? I’ve put atf/mineral sprites mix and Mavels Down it already. Was planning to pull the head off just to see but I got a killer deal on all the parts I bought.

    For Jeep on the Mac I tend to go the opposite direction of large events. Sit in enough traffic going to work and back. Don’t want to sitting in trail traffic.

    I rebuilt my tj last winter with a new frame and body and it ended up with a 5.3 out of a trailblazer. This Jeep I want for the classic feeling you get from being behind the wheel.
     
  12. Sep 5, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

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    Your TJ is really nothing like your CJ in any respect but name. The vehicle works the same way, internal combustion engine, tires etc, but its more akin to a tractor than a modern vehicle.

    The rear disk setups are tricky to get right. They also have no provision for an emergency brake unless you go to a more modern axle with the internal drums with disk setups. There is the ability to go with Eldorado disks, but the parts are not available everywhere and takes some doing to get right.

    Its super easy to literally bolt on 11or 10" drums on the rear and be done with it. Literal bolt on mod, no fabricating or thinking. The front disk is almost a bolt on mod as well, but the 11" drums are.
     
  13. Sep 5, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    The main issue I see with rear disks, aside from being yet another project to complete, is the parking brake. If you keep the transfer-case-mounted parking brake, then that's not an issue. If you are building a Jeep, the usual rear drum brakes would be the 11"x2" Bendix brakes used in a lot of Jeeps and Fords. Widely available, parts are cheap, easy to fit to a Jeep. These brakes make the cable-operated parking brake hookup comparatively easy and usually a lot more effective than the TC-mounted brake. The TC-mounted brake can be a continuing problem, because the Dana 18 leaks so badly, with an obvious outcome.

    Another issue - the original drum brakes are likely sufficient for braking the rear axle. The fronts provide most of the braking force, and the rears are mostly there to keep the rear wheels in line with the fronts in hard braking. Seems like young guys are put off by the apparent complexity of drum brakes, but they are not hard to work on with a little study and practice and possibly advice. They wear out faster than disk pads, and are not self-wiping like disks so they can become ineffective when wet. However, they do provide lower unsprung weight than disks, and the drums can be reused several times before they need to be replaced. They wear a lot less on the rear than the front, so are likely to last as long between service as front disks. Lots of cars used front disks and rear drums, well in to this century.
     
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  14. Sep 5, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    I would also comment about the F134 - All these engines are now really old, and you may have a hard time finding a good core if your engine is no good. They have a tendency to crack between the head bolt holes and water jacket - look here site:earlycj5.com cracked F134 engine - Bing They are also a very old design, originating in the 1930s Willys car engines that were pressed into service for WWII in Jeeps. It's a great engine for its era, but as mentioned above, it has more in common with a tractor than a modern automobile. The veerrry long stroke and small bore means that the torque peaks at a very low RPM, and thus the engine feels strong at low speed but poops out on the highway. These Jeeps are happiest cruising at boulevard speeds. Even with an overdrive, they are working very hard to run on the highway.

    Depends on what you want. If I had a frame that's ready for a V6, I'd go that way. The Buick V6 in this chassis is a lot of fun, and will be much more at ease at highway speeds.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  15. Sep 5, 2019
    Greevesman

    Greevesman Sponsor Sponsor

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    As others have said, it depends on what you want to use it for and how long it will take to build. I knew nothing about jeeps and picked up a 65 Fhead.
    All totally stock with a hard top and little rust. Fire road jeep. I really like that its complete and stock. All I have really done to it is 11" drums in front as it didn't stop well and all new SS brake lines and new hoses. T90 poped out of 2nd going downhill so rebuilt that and the transfer case. Added an overdrive which is very useful with the Fhead
    I love the sound of an odd fire but there are lots of things to change and you would probably want a four speed.
    Have fun
     
  16. Sep 5, 2019
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    But you can buy a new 134 block now. Just more dollars than a new crate sbc.

    As is always the case, it all gets back to what use you want to make of the jeep. The 225 does put them in the modern world and you can keep up with traffic. And they are MUCH better off road than the 134's. Frankly, better in EVERY way than the 1926 Whippet derivative.

    As Tim pointed out, if you still have the D18 e-brake, rear discs don't present any problems. I've been running them on my 3B for decades. You do need an adjustable proportioning valve and the 2lb retaining valves for both front/back. I love them.
     
  17. Sep 5, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    I think that's only the flat head version :(
     
  18. Sep 5, 2019
    Greevesman

    Greevesman Sponsor Sponsor

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    I think that's correct.
     
  19. Sep 6, 2019
    JeepinLee

    JeepinLee New Member

    Michigan
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    You can always put a inline valve that holds pressure to the rear brakes. Plenty of people use them in the off road world. A guy in a club with a 59 is constantly Fiddling with his drums. As soon as we go though a water hole which we had a lot of he practically looses all brakes. I mainly lean towards the dauntless because a power steering set up is a lot easier to get all the parts for and come up with.
     
  20. Sep 6, 2019
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    You could always drill the drums...;) :whistle:
     

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