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Howell Odd Fire V6 Fuel Injection Kit Install

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Norcal69, Jul 29, 2020.

  1. Sep 2, 2020
    Mjragan

    Mjragan Member

    socal-Simi Valley
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    Mar 27, 2010
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    Only reason I ask is there are different size valves if pinching it of doesn’t fix the lean concern it’s not the problem.
    I can’t believe Howell programs their proms so lean. The 225 Buick will run on the stock 4.3L GM prom.
     
  2. Sep 2, 2020
    45es

    45es Member 2019 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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    Mar 31, 2007
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    You said your contact Troy said will adjust the program enrichening the fueling. Why don't you ask him to also lower the programed idle speed closer to where you would like it to be. It may not be as low as you want but closer. The tach signal may not prove to be an issue.
     
  3. Sep 2, 2020
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2020 Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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    It looks to me that your setup is similar to the one on my long gone 89 suburban with a 454 TBI. That engine idled higher than I liked.. Not relevant to this though..

    So, this system has a program that at a certain RPM a pulse or signal is sent to the injector to open. Would it make sense that the pulses being sent are at a too low frequency or to low of duration? To remedy this you have increased the pressure of the fuel system beyond its operating specs by twice. It seems to me that either your injector is too small or the pulse frequency to open the injector is too slow or too short.

    Here is a link with smart looking graphs and lots of words. GM Injector Characterization - Injector Dynamics
     
  4. Sep 2, 2020
    45es

    45es Member 2019 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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  5. Sep 2, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    The increase in pressure is kind of a band-aid to the situation. It get you more fuel.... but in a crude fashion. I'm guessing that the solution is to increase the pulse so that it sends fuel for a longer period of time. Troy mentioned that he was going to give it a bunch more fuel under 2000 rpm so I would be able to back the pressure down. :shrug:
     
    47v6 likes this.
  6. Sep 2, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    I wouldn't think so either.
    What besides 45es said about calling Howell before changing intake gaskets....... I pulled all the spark plugs and took a picture. If there was an intake leak at the head it would show lean on that individual spark plug. All the plugs are pretty much the same..... This is after a 500 mile trip with 5 hours or highway driving and 21 PSI of fuel pressure.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Sep 2, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    I like where you are going..... but I want to work on one thing at a time. I would like this thread to have a happy post that says........
    Yes the Howell kit works on your dauntless. Bolt it on, check a few things out, make some adjustments and run it.
    Once I have the Howell kit running as Howell intends it to then I will be able to give it the offical ECJ5 stamp of approval! (y)

    After the above statement..... and the 6 month warranty expires...... I am thinking about changing to a crank fire setup.
    I have been emailing with Affordable fuel injection about a 231 even fire TBI setup for Steve's 71.
    When I asked them about an odd fire this is what they said.....

    Yes we do. The odd fire from our standpoint will function the same as the even fire when you do one addition first. You need to install a universal crank signal trigger with a fin separation of 180 degrees. Once that is done the even fire kit works on the oddfire.


    I have a feeling that a crank fire setup will find it's way onto my jeep..... :rofl: After all other bugs are worked out.
     
    Fireball likes this.
  8. Sep 2, 2020
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or less in line 2020 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    I SOOO Much want all this to be LOTS easier.
    I'm sure I could install an O2 sensor, water temp sensor and bolt a TBI to the top of my intake but all these numbers and abbreviations have me completely baffled.
     
  9. Sep 2, 2020
    45es

    45es Member 2019 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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    Ask. I too dislike acronyms but sadly we all fall into that trap from time to time. They do add to the confusion when trying to understand something. Again I say ask because understanding the terminology will lead to a better understanding of the system(s) and how they function although tuning the systems takes time to learn. Kyle should be commended in that respect. He has taken the information that Howell (Troy) shared with him on this system and applied it to his good troubleshooting skills.
     
  10. Sep 2, 2020
    45es

    45es Member 2019 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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    If you share this picture with Howell, they may suggest to you to just keep on driving they jeep.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
  11. Sep 2, 2020
    jwinsley

    jwinsley Windblown

    Kauai
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    May 4, 2011
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    The video you have of the snap on meter with the idle bouncing between 600-900 RPM, that looks a lot like the idle bounce issue (even the range of the bounce) I was having with my Holley 2 barrel EFI setup before I went to the magnetic pickup RPM sensor. (There is more infor in
    New EFI Option - Looks Like 3 Good Players Now) thread.
    Basically I put on the Holley system on hoping it would run off the HEI tach signal. It ran off of the tach signal but never ideal, with the idle constantly bouncing and hard cold start. I knew that was a risk when I bought the system. I went with a magnetic pickup on the crank pulley and it runs like a champ now.
     
    FinoCJ and Fireball like this.
  12. Sep 2, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Please point me towards the magnetic crank pulley pickup you used.
     
    Fireball likes this.
  13. Sep 2, 2020
    jwinsley

    jwinsley Windblown

    Kauai
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    I picked up a Holley part 554-124 Crank Sensor HE. Its not the cheapest sensor out there by any means but I dont have junkyards available to pick through and was able to confirm the Holley sensor would work with the Holley EFI without any mucking around. Was easy to trigger with bolts through the holes in the pulley but I did end up welding a piece of flat stock onto the bolt head. Its an oddball tap size I had to special order, M12x1.
     
    Buildflycrash likes this.
  14. Sep 2, 2020
    zinertia2

    zinertia2 "and which part are you keeping?" 2020 Sponsor

    San Diego
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    Jwinsley

    Did you have/add a trigger wheel?
    Dennis
     
  15. Sep 2, 2020
    cj6/442

    cj6/442 Sponsor

    Fallbrook, Calif
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    Spray carb spray in those area and see if that changes ...and those plug pics look very lean
     
  16. Sep 2, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Can you post pics?
     
    Fireball likes this.
  17. Sep 3, 2020
    jwinsley

    jwinsley Windblown

    Kauai
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    I can post pictures tomorrow afternoon and no to the trigger wheel question. My understanding is a trigger wheel is for a crank position sensor which feeds more infor to a computer than a simple magnetic pickup which is solely determining engine rpm.
     
  18. Sep 3, 2020
    zinertia2

    zinertia2 "and which part are you keeping?" 2020 Sponsor

    San Diego
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    Jwinsley
    Thanks

    my harmonic does not have uniform holes/protuberances/etc - where I could add a sensor, so I wondered how you achieved a “uniform per revolution” way to measure/count for a RPM representation. I have been thinking to add a trigger wheel for that uniformity (not crank position- not controlling timing), just to achieve at least one pulse per cylinder in count (3 on wheel since 2 revs to fire all 6).

    Second vote for pictures of that area. :)

    Dennis
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  19. Sep 3, 2020
    Renegade ll

    Renegade ll Member

    Thayne Wyoming
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    Feb 17, 2013
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    437
    I'm with you Scott.
     
  20. Sep 3, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Chim chiminey Chim chim cher-ee!

    Sedalia MO.
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    You basically need to know what you're doing before you have someone else do it for you.:gaah:

    Difference is in the time and mistakes
     

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