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Hopefully This Fixes It.. Shock Woes

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by zila, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Feb 14, 2020
    zila

    zila I throw poop

    Rock Springs,...
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
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    Ever since I have installed my RR YJ conversion I have been having problems with the RR shock mounts. Either bolts back out or break.. I believe the breaking is because my shocks are the incorrect length and because my bumps stops are missing each other at full compression. For the shock mount I bought some MORE weld ons. I bolted them to the bolt hole on the RR spring skid, then welded them in place.. I also found a crack on the right rear next to the bolt bung for the bottom shock in the skid, Ground it out and welded it up.. I also have installed 1/4-20 allen set screw to hold the bolt in place. Pics[hopefully] below..

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Feb 15, 2020
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb

    Jasper
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    Nov 24, 2019
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    I hope this fixes your mount issue, it should make them a lot stronger. After thinking about it I believe I would examine the shock length issue very closely, that could possibly be the main cause of your problems. Bilstein shock has good spec pages and tables on all their shock models with min and max length spec listed.
     
  3. Feb 15, 2020
    Dphillip

    Dphillip Sponsor

    Omaha NE
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    Nov 25, 2008
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    I have the same U-bolt skid plates as you and had the same problem with the bottom shock bolt becoming loose constantly. Like you I welded the bottom shock mount to the skid plated but in my case a shock bolt with a nut on the end. I also lowered and re-aligned my bump stops using some 1 inch square tubing. I’ve had good luck since and I think you will too.

    CC358B5D-E6FB-47ED-A268-D6C760FDCFE7.png F57E46A4-12D5-433F-A2FE-BE88B083603F.png
     
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  4. Feb 15, 2020
    zila

    zila I throw poop

    Rock Springs,...
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    Never thought of using square tube. But what I am doing will get me there. I hope. What is connected to the other bolt on the Ubolt skid?
     
  5. Feb 15, 2020
    zila

    zila I throw poop

    Rock Springs,...
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    Yes the shock length is what started all this.. I finished the front. Then carefully measured shock min/max. Then I went to NAPA and compared shock lengths... Working on the rear now..
     
  6. Feb 15, 2020
    Dphillip

    Dphillip Sponsor

    Omaha NE
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    Sway bar link is attached to the forward side of the skid plate. Same set up with a shock bolt welded to the skid.

    3DE4D6F7-75EC-4809-B172-F9E3A0FF063B.jpeg
     
  7. Feb 15, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    Something to consider: as an axle articulates, in the stock configuration, a shock’s mounts move in an unnatural motion. The shock’s flex is limited by the amount of flex in the bushing and how much the pin can flex within the eye. Flex it too far and something has to give.

    If the shock mount pins are parallel to the frame rather than perpendicular to it, the flex happens naturally around the spring eye, rather than across it.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Feb 16, 2020
    zila

    zila I throw poop

    Rock Springs,...
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    Good point. If I have any more trouble I'll move the mount. Kinda late now as I welded it up..
     
  9. Feb 16, 2020
    zila

    zila I throw poop

    Rock Springs,...
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    Yeah mine has no sway bar..
     
  10. Feb 17, 2020
    Dphillip

    Dphillip Sponsor

    Omaha NE
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    “If the shock mount pins are parallel to the frame rather than perpendicular to it, the flex happens naturally around the spring eye, rather than across it.”

    I would never question Mr. ITLKSEZ because his knowledge of suspensions and fabrication is undeniable. I been thinking about his advise about the location of the shock mount pin. Please correct me if I’m wrong but it seems to me that when the axle articulates it moves forward and backwards as the leaf spring compresses and releases. Shouldn’t the shock pin be perpendicular with the frame and parallel with the axle so the shock bushing can rotate on the pin as the axles moves forward and backward because of articulation?

    I’m always trying to learn from these posts and the incredible knowledge members have.

    E10303B6-E561-4C8E-B653-A78E2417D1B4.jpeg
     
  11. Feb 17, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    While you are at it..... I would move the shock to the rear of the front axle to get it out of the way of your steering.
     
  12. Feb 17, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    It would depend on the amount of arch in your spring, and the amount of articulation that your springs actually allow. A flat spring will have very little fore/aft movement, where a spring with a severe arch will have more.

    It also depends on the angle of the shock. A vertical shock will be more sensitive to mount orientation than a shock that’s on an angle. An angled shock can absorb much of the twist through shock-body vs. piston rotation.

    For the answer to your question in relation to your particular setup, look at your suspension as if the axle is a pendulum, and the pendulum’s pivot is the fixed spring eye. Now move the pendulum around the pivot point 4-6” in each direction. Take note of how much the axle is moving forward/rearward in relation to a vertical plane.

    Because a leaf spring has two pivot points (the fixed spring mount and the shackle), the axle stays relatively flat through its travel, so there is very little rotational movement to take into consideration with foe/aft motion (as opposed to a radius arm setup that only pivots around one mount).

    With that in mind, the shock itself can be looked at as another pendulum swinging from the upper shock mount. With no twist to account for, you really only need to compensate for maybe 10° - 15° of pendulum swing with arched springs. That’s well within the limits of a shock’s bushing.

    Now compare those angles with the flex of a healthy suspension. What’s the angle of your axle in comparison to your frame under maximum flex? 20°? 30°? It depends on the setup of course, but I think you’ll find the twist is much greater than the swing.

    *Numbers are approximate, as I pulled them out of my exhaust pipe for examples. :D
     
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  13. Feb 17, 2020
    Dphillip

    Dphillip Sponsor

    Omaha NE
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    Thanks for your detailed reply.

    I understand what your saying and agree the shock bushing can absorb the limited amount of axle movement.

    I was curious about this after thinking back to every Jeep and truck I’ve owned with leaf springs and each one had the shock mounting bushing/pins parallel with the axle.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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  14. Feb 17, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    In stock configuration, it’s fine. But when we start adding longer and softer springs that allow so much flex, weak points in the stock setup start to show.
     
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  15. Feb 17, 2020
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Dphillip,
    Disregard my input. I see your shocks are already behind the axle.
     
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