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Frustrated with starter...help!

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by JeepDriver, Apr 6, 2009.

  1. Apr 6, 2009
    JeepDriver

    JeepDriver Member

    Concord, NC
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
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    278
    Hi All, I am restoring a 65 CJ5 and I am having some issues with getting it started. I bought a new solenoid as the jeep was missing one. Installed it and wired it up and lo and behold it turned over just fine. I was not getting spark and fiddled around for a bit before stepping away from it for a couple of weeks. I go back to and nothing. Clicking in the solenoid and nothing else. Pulled the starter and had it tested at the FLAPS. Worked fine. I cleaned all the connections and charged the battery. Nothing. Installed a new battery and got a couple a slow turns and then nothing. Installed a new solenoid on the off chance it was toast. Replaced the solenoid to starter cable and redid all the grounds one more time. Still nothing. Pulled the starter and tried hooking it to the battery with booster cables and jumping across the terminals. Lots of spark but nothing else. Is the starter toast? Does it need to be rebuilt? Any ideas are much appreciated.


    Mike
     
  2. Apr 6, 2009
    PeteL

    PeteL Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Aug 3, 2003
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    Brushes worn out? Dead pole on commutator?
     
  3. Apr 6, 2009
    kaiser_willys

    kaiser_willys Well-Known Member

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    sounds like time for a starter rebuild, or the toyota landcruiser starter conversion
     
  4. Apr 7, 2009
    JeepDriver

    JeepDriver Member

    Concord, NC
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
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    I did some reading on the toyota starter. Am I correct in that it does not require an external starter solenoid?

    Mike
     
  5. Apr 8, 2009
    JeepDriver

    JeepDriver Member

    Concord, NC
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
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    Toyota starter is in and turning over perfect. Now I can move on to getting it running.

    Here is the wiring I used.

    [​IMG]

    Mike
     
  6. Apr 8, 2009
    CO64CJ5

    CO64CJ5 Member

    Littleton, CO
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
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    125
    Offhand, I would not think you'd need the "Ford Solenoid". You should be able to run the wire from the neutral safety switch directly to the "S" terminal on the starter's solenoid.

    Not that it hurts anything, but seems like unnecessary complication.
     
  7. Apr 8, 2009
    JeepDriver

    JeepDriver Member

    Concord, NC
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    Sep 12, 2005
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    I may rewire it later but I suck with electrical so not likely R)

    mike
     
  8. Apr 20, 2009
    JeepDriver

    JeepDriver Member

    Concord, NC
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
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    278
    Need help with Toyota starter

    I have installed the Toyota starter and wired it up as shown above. It was turning the jeep over just fine. I didn't do much else with it but now I have hooked up the tank and am looking to get it running. So i noticed today that when I prime it to start it and it dies after a few seconds the starter is still going ( at tleast it sounds this way). So prime the carb, turn the key, the jeep starts, prime runs out and it sound like the starter is still going. What is the easiest way to wire this starter without the solenoid and suggested in a previous post?

    Mike
     
  9. Apr 20, 2009
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Looks to me like it should work as is. You can remove the Ford solenoid entirely and connect the S wire that's on teh Ford soleoid not to the Toyota solenoid. The two lines connected to A and B can be eliminated.

    The I terminal is typically used to give the coil a full 12V when starting, bypassing the ballast resistor in the usual ignition circuit coming from the ignition switch. You may or may not need it.
     
  10. Apr 20, 2009
    lynndiwagon

    lynndiwagon New Member

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    Mar 13, 2008
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    Yes, get rid of the solenoid, it is built into the Toyota starter. I don't see how it is possible for the starter to keep on running without the Bendix engaging the starter armature to the engine. Normal operation is for 12v from ignition switch to kick in an internal solenoid which then shoots the starter teeth into the ring gear and at the same time, internally, there is a connection from the big 12v cable to the starter motor making it run. 12v cannot be transferred to the starter motor unless the starter gear is shot forward by the electro magnet inside the bendix. Hope this makes sense.
     
  11. Apr 21, 2009
    JeepDriver

    JeepDriver Member

    Concord, NC
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    I really suck with wiring. What is the most basic way to wire this? I have a 4 post universal switch with batt,acc,ign and an umarked 4th post that is on the top of the switch. I have the + cable running from the battery to the + post on the starter. The solenoid has been removed at this point. I have a wire from the I on the switch to the the coil and one from the coil to the distributor. I have a wire from the battery to the batt on the switch. What else do I need here to use this starter without the external solenoid. Sorry for these basic questions but I have a major phobia of wiring and for some reason just can't understand it.

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  12. Apr 21, 2009
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    If you have an ign switch that has a spring return when turned fully to the right, then you should have an "S" term on switch that should have a wire from the switch "S" down to the "S" term on starter solenoid.
     
  13. Apr 21, 2009
    JeepDriver

    JeepDriver Member

    Concord, NC
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    It does return when turned but I see no "S" on it.

    Mike
     
  14. Apr 21, 2009
    CO64CJ5

    CO64CJ5 Member

    Littleton, CO
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    Feb 26, 2007
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    Just a guess -- maybe it's the unmarked 4th terminal? Do you have a test light or meter you can use to check the switch function?

    When this seemed to be working with the extra solenoid, was this unmarked terminal wired to the solenoid?
     
  15. Apr 21, 2009
    JeepDriver

    JeepDriver Member

    Concord, NC
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    Sep 12, 2005
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    Yes it was wired to the solenoid. I had 2 wires coming from it. One to the starter and the other to the coil. not sure why but it worked.


    Mike
     
  16. Apr 21, 2009
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    Is the unmarked terminal on the switch in the middle? That's where the "s" or starter terminal is on most aftermarket universal ignition switches. If you had the wire from the starter hooked to the "ign" terminal, the starter solenoid will get power and run whenever the switch is in the on position, not just the start, or crank, position.
     
  17. Apr 22, 2009
    Agent454

    Agent454 New Member

    Litchfield Park...
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    Dec 17, 2008
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    You are doing great. You have it wired correctly. Yes, the "4th terminal" (raised up in the middle) is the "s" starter position. Run a wire from that pole to the neutral start switch. Connect the other pole (terminal) of the neutral start switch directly to the smallest terminal or "S" terminal on the starter.

    With that said, I have had alot of trouble with "cheap" universal ignition switches sticking in the start position. Yes it keeps the starter engaged. If you don't have a test light ($10 at part store) connect that "4th" terminal to one of your dash lights. Turn the key, if dash light stays on after you release start switch, its bad.
     
  18. Apr 22, 2009
    JeepDriver

    JeepDriver Member

    Concord, NC
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    So I played around alittle more with this today. Got it turning over fine but it sounds like the starter is still engagin even though it appears to be wired right. The switch may be messed up. When I turn it all the way it stops turning over the engine. All the way right should be start correct and back to the middle is run. This switch is is acting like start is the middle and all the way right is run. Or have i just screwed the wiring up completely?

    Mike
     
  19. Apr 22, 2009
    CO64CJ5

    CO64CJ5 Member

    Littleton, CO
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
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    Offhand, it sounds like you have just screwed the wiring up completely.;)

    Well, maybe not -- maybe you've just swapped two wires.

    Any chance you could take a picture of the ignition switch terminals and the starter solenoid terminals?

    Any chance you could get hold of a test light or meter?
     
  20. Apr 23, 2009
    Agent454

    Agent454 New Member

    Litchfield Park...
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    Dec 17, 2008
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    If you turn the switch to the right, to the first position (click, detent, whatever you want to call it) and the engine turns over, something is wrong. Either bad switch or incorrect wiring. Since you mentioned you turn switch all the way to the right and engine stops turning over, leads me to beleive incorrect wiring.
     

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