1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Dj-5c Restoration - 3s + 1w

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Jeff Bromberger, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. Dec 20, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    86
    Today, you can call me Thor, wielder of the hammer.

    Day starts with three tie rod ends that didn't want to surrender their cozy relationship with steering knuckles. Lordy, that pickle fork must have a headache by now from the hammering. But that was the easy task. Tomorrow they get the penetrating oil bath and maybe the ends unscrew without too much grief. Oh, wait, it's me talking here...

    The left (passenger) side has a different situation going down. I cannot get the brake drum off. It isn't seized or anything like that. No paint or crud that bonded it to the hub, either. This was plain ol' brake shoe interference. And, making my day the joy it was, the star adjuster is rusted solid, so there's nothing I can do to bring them shoes in from the outside. The right (driver) side drum just came right off, alas, which goes to show that it was poorly adjusted. Just for the record, the right star adjuster is also frozen solid, so this is gonna need some TLC.

    On go the shooting muffs and I take Ye Olde Ball Peen to the brake drum edges, attempting to drive it off of the shoes. Slow going initially. By the time I got halfway there, with about an inch of exposed shoe lining, the drum could be muscled off. To cite the most important Christmas movie: Yippie-Ki-Ay!

    Day ended with a long, circuitous trip betwixt and between hardware stores (and auto part places) to get my hands on a 2-1/8 inch socket to get those front hubs off. Let's just say that most of the auto places that rent tools only go up to a 39mm size, and we're beefier than that. Harbor Fake was severely lacking in anything that big. Home CreepShow was sold out (or may not have even stocked it). Wandered down to Northern Tool, and *they* had 'em. Of course, it's 3/4 inch drive, so I need the magic thingamabobbie that lets me use my 1/2 inch socket wrench on this. More money spent on a tool that I'll probably need only once or twice.

    The inner anatomy of these hubs are certainly, to quote Jw60, "safer" than the old axle. Inner and outer bearings are monster size for a Jeep this size. Timken LM501349s define the way I roll now. Double nuts and keyed spacers keep the bearing in place - talk about overkill. And as I've learned from the Bus Grease Monkey, the outer spacer was bent over on one side to keep the nut from wandering loose. Now I have something in common with larger vehicles; cotter pins through castle nuts are for wimps and wusses!

    Could not find any local end cap gaskets, so I just bought a roll of flat material and I'll cut it myself. It doesn't have to look as "pretty" as the six lobed ones. Just a donut with 3 holes in the perimeter are all I need.

    Tomorrow, I return the rented hub socket kit, buy four of those bearings, and then finish up the front beam axle. That includes brakes (with wheel cylinders) and the whole steering system.

    Doorbell just rang. Should be UPS with new rear leaf springs. Gotta boogie.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
    Jw60 and timgr like this.
  2. Dec 20, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    20,423
    Not just most important - the best Christmas movie, MF!

    If they used the CJ knuckles and spindles, they are very much oversize for the application, particularly on the outer end.
     
  3. Dec 21, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    86
    I have never seen a vintage CJ up close in real life. All I know is that they are 4WD, meaning that the solid tube axle I have is not the standard configuration. If, say, AM General happened to use run of the mill CJ spindles and knuckles, how would I know? Are there any pictures/dimensional sheets that I could reference to be positive?

    EDIT: I just did some digging, and it does look like, at least from the knuckle out, that I've got some the same parts as a Dana 27. I have the same hollow short spindle that bolts onto the knuckle. The knuckle itself may be custom, as there is a long tang for the tie rod and drag link to connect to, and as such, there are two tapered holes for those ball joint stems.

    No matter what, it still leaves me having to play a fun game at the auto parts place. I'm beginning to sound like Johnny Cash when they ask me what year this Jeep is. :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  4. Dec 21, 2019
    Jw60

    Jw60 Recovering Jeepaholic

    Sedalia MO.
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    404
    Looks more like a early drum dana 30 without the center casting for gears. the 27 still had kingpin bearings.
    The double hole left knuckle is the only thing I see that would not be easy to find or reproduce.
     
  5. Dec 21, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    20,423
    Yes. Replace the center with one long tube. Dana may have already had that knuckle in production for export.
     
  6. Dec 21, 2019
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member

    exploring the...
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,146
    as far as tapered tie rods ditch the fork get two hammers and smack both sides of the tapered side(spindle) at the same time (think nine and three oclock) with some force when you get it right the stud pops right out.something to do with molecules and circles or some mumbo jumbo.
     
  7. Dec 21, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    20,423
  8. Dec 22, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    86
    I never said it wasn't available. It was more like a Veruca Salt moment: "I want it NOW!"
     
  9. Dec 24, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    86
    Back in NY for Christmas, but the questions never stop.

    The front right spindle has some discoloration where the outer bearing ran. There are no grooves that my fingernail can detect; there are still traces of the original lathe marks.

    I know that this hub bearing was contaminated with water - the grease changed color and consistency. The races are still shiny new looking.

    Should I be nervous about the spindle?
     
  10. Dec 24, 2019
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member

    exploring the...
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,146
    Not unless the bearing fits sloppy try one on without the hub and see if it’s loose. from the description it’s seems fine I’ve.run some with nasty grooves without I’ll effec
     
  11. Dec 30, 2019
    Rustman

    Rustman New Member

    Charles Town, WV
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Messages:
    15
    Jeff,

    After you welcomed me to the board I went and found your thread. What an inspiration for anyone trying to get an old Jeep/truck/car running! There's a number of times your story I would have just sat down on the storage unit floor and cried. Keep up the good work. I'm loving following along.

    Matt
     
    Dphillip and ojgrsoi like this.
  12. Dec 30, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    86
    Matt: thanks for the kind words. Yeah, there have been a few times when crying seemed like the only/best solution, but there's no time for tears when you're rebuilding a Jeep. Somebody here's almost always got a better solution to what you think is a terminal condition. And when you do find items that are beyond your control, it helps you keep it in perspective.

    As of now, most of the early grief is over. Starting in the next 2 weeks, the fun begins: I get to strip down and rebuild my transmission, to be followed by the engine! There's not much of a choice here. A trans rebuild kit is under 300 bucks on a bad day, and paying some flim-flam artist to install it is over $3500. Seriously, how hard can it be? Follow the book page by page, picture by picture and as long as you keep the parts in order, nothing should go wrong. It isn't a nuclear reactor, after all...

    Somebody suggested, as a side note, that I should convert this thread into a book at some time. It'd be 75% autobiography and only 25% Jeep. Maybe that's why I am spending my free time and (not so free) cash in rebuilding this monster. Work out your mid-life crisis with a wrench.
     
  13. Dec 30, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    20,423
    Rebuilding automatics is fun, in my experience. The hard part is the removal and installation. Once it's on the bench, you take it apart and clean and replace parts. Be sure to keep careful track of things like snap rings and check balls.
     
    ojgrsoi likes this.
  14. Dec 31, 2019
    Rustman

    Rustman New Member

    Charles Town, WV
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Messages:
    15
    I rebuilt a 1984 Toyota 4-cyl engine in a carport using basic tools and a Haynes manual. Took the block and head to a local machine shop for them to do their part. But everything else was done by me. Did that as a teenager and when I was all done the only real screwup was I must have damaged the rear main seal when installing it because after that she lost a quart of oil a thousand miles. So in my personal opinion rebuilding an engine can certainly be taken on by yourself.
     
  15. Jan 5, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    86
    Today, ladies and gentlemen, I am the proverbial blind squirrel.

    Behold, a sight of glory! Shield your eyes, it may be too much at once:
    LeftFrontHubDone.jpg

    Yup. I have real, solid progress in the front axle department. On both sides, I have new wheel cylinders (obscured in this photo), new brake shoes, new brake hardware (minus the star adjuster, which was a lesson in "Who's Actually The Boss Here?"), new bearings (the races were almost perfect), and new spindle nuts. Tomorrow, the drums go on, the brakes get adjusted, and then the hub caps get gaskets and screwed on (with new hardware acquired tonight).

    So, the star adjusters. Let's just say that the rust bunnies had moved in and were not interested in relocating. I drenched them overnight in Deep Creep, stuffed 'em in zipper bags, and let them marinate, if you will. This morning, the screw adjustment came moving, and that's a positive step. But that front nubbin would not budge off of the actual star. Time to whip out the heavy metal and get medieval. Vise Grips on the small cap and a Channel-Lock on the star. Spray it with penetrating lube like my hernia depended on it, and went to town in the torque department. Holy flaming profanities, Batman! This was not letting go! Another shpritz of lube and a second try. Third try. Finally, it starts twisting. Fifth time is the charm and the cap comes off. Bust out the Brake Clean, the wire brush, more oil and then the Don't-You-Ever-Think-Of-Seizing compound. At the end of the party, I had both of them going easily and now expect that they have learned their respective lessons.

    Cleaning out those hubs was fun - no wire brushing allowed. Just a can of Brake Clean, lots of nitrile gloves and paper towels. Somebody must have had an accident with the old bearing grease, because there was goop everywhere. It had congealed, looking like whipped peanut butter. And the gallon of the stuff wedged in the dead space, nowhere near the bearing surfaces, OMG. If the rule was "pack it in, as too much is never enough." then the last mechanic lived up to his/her full potential.

    New gloves and new can of bearing grease to go along with the new bearings. You know, they teach you in Physics that two objects cannot exist in the same space at the same time. Fourth Dimension and such. Where the heck did I manage to pack all of that grease? I used about an 8th of a pound in each of the 4 bearings. It just kept eating it up, and I kept packing it in. Burped it a few times, and more disappeared into the system. I gotta say that when all of the goop was in there, that bearing had no real desire to roll anywhere. Stick? Sure! Roll? Not in the traditional sense.

    Greased the races for good measure, dropped in the inner bearing and then carefully tapped in the rear seal. No issues here. Outer race gets the greasy finger and the bearing gets slipped in. And the whole thing gingerly pressed onto the spindle. The outer bearing wanted to play; I was in no mood for shenanigans. Pressed it in as far as I could, then slipped in the new inner spindle washer. Hand threaded the inner nut - no wrench used. Once the nut and washer kept the bearings and hub in place, I tried a quick rotate. I got news for you - this is not better than it was. The original bearings were bone dry, and they spun like clicking tornadoes. The new ones are so greased up, they don't wanna spin so easily, and they make this strange sound, sort of like the one you hear when your gumboot gets stuck in the marshes. Thwuck! But the hubs do turn, and if you listen past the swamp sounds, there's no more clicking. Outer washer goes on, the outer nut follows, and this one gets the wrench. Only thing left to do is to bend over the outer washer to lock the nut in place and then cap it all off.

    First time in ages I can smile and say, "Yes, I am making forward progress." The tie rod and the drag link all have new ends installed, and I'm just waiting to install them. Then the shocks go on, and I move in and focus on the brake lines (which has made progress already).
     
    Jw60, Dphillip and ojgrsoi like this.
  16. Jan 5, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Recovering Jeepaholic

    Sedalia MO.
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    404
    Good work! Hard to tell in the picture but is the freeze plug still in the spindle. Also check the the adjustment mechanism moves the shoes apart and not together. I don't see self adjusters?
     
  17. Jan 5, 2020
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    20,423
    Woohoo!

    Looks just like CJ front hubs, except there's no axle in the middle of the spindle, and you have manually adjusted brakes.
     
  18. Jan 5, 2020
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Dallas Metroplex...
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    86
    No self adjusters. Can I retrofit them? And nothing in the spindle besides ages old grease that I was too lazy to scoop out.
     
  19. Jan 5, 2020
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    20,423
    You should be able to; they look like 11" Bendix brakes the CJ used. All the parts are available. Check one of the '70s TSMs online at oljeep.com for pictures of the brakes.
     
  20. Jan 5, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Recovering Jeepaholic

    Sedalia MO.
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    404
    Interesting On my 69 m416 there are freeze plugs to keep the grease out of the spindle.
    As tim suggests I would retrofit the self adjusters. they make a world of difference in ease of maintenance.

    [​IMG]20161021_154905 by Joe with a jeep, on Flickr
     

Share This Page

New Posts