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Dj-5c Restoration - 3s + 1w

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Jeff Bromberger, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. Aug 20, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Jeff, pistons will be the most expensive part for a real rebuild. You have two choices: reuse your old pistons or buy new ones. If you buy new ones they will be oversized and the machine shop will bore the block and fit the new pistons to the bores. This is not something you can do yourself. If you reuse your pistons, you will be putting the original pistons back into a worn bore. The rings wear away the bores unevenly, so the bores develop a taper, top to bottom, largest at the top. It's a judgement call whether you can reuse the pistons, hone the bores, and fit the old pistons and new rings. The more taper, the shorter the life of the replacement rings will be. With crooked bores, you must use cast iron rings (no chrome or moly) because they are soft enough to wear-in to the imperfect bore. This also means that the rings wear out more quickly, because they are soft and because the constant flexing of the tapered bore fatigues the ring metal.

    A rebuild is considered reconditioning to "like new" performance and longevity. You can rebuild an engine yourself. Some things you have to send out, like the head and fitting new pistons, but you can do it. You can also do an old fashioned overhaul, which is rings, rod bearings, and valve grind. Or something in between. Lots of possibilities, and a good outcome requires some judgement. Also, in this age of factory rebuilds (or "remanufacturing") doing it yourself could end up costing as much or more than a factory built block.

    With an iron crank (like the 232), the crank itself wears about as much as the bearing material does. I suspect you'll either be able to leave the bottom end alone, or you will need a crank kit. The kit has a crankshaft that has been precision ground slightly undersized, and slightly oversized bearings. You can check the fit with gauges or Plastigage.

    You could start with this book, if you're keen on reading: https://www.amazon.com/Engine-Builders-Handbook-Tom-Monroe/dp/1557882452 These engines are very conventional, and you don't need a lot of specialized knowledge to work on them. Also read the TSM chapter completely. Ask questions.

    Just me: I would set the new engine in the chassis or on a home-made engine stand and start it. See what you get. Oil pressure and compression test first. The 232/258 typically wears out the rings before the bottom end fails. A running engine will tell you a lot more than one that is sitting on the floor.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
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  2. Aug 20, 2019
    Jw60

    Jw60 Recovering Jeepaholic

    Sedalia MO.
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    I rebuilt my 4.3 before running it on a test stand. they machined 20 thou over the piston bore and once paid they said they really only needed to do 10 thou but couldn't find the parts. I should have run it bolted to a pallet or something, check oil pressure, manifold vacuum. I would have gotten rings and maybe a cam kit.
     
  3. Aug 20, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    What's the best way to determine oil pressure if I have the engine propped up in the frame? Use the installed Sender Unit and a volt/ohm meter? Or buy an external gauge and use it in place of the sender? Can I determine oil pressure just by cranking with the starter, or does it actually have to be running to make this all work?

    The TSM says that it is supposed to run at 13 PSI@600 idle, 37@1600RPM, and a max of 75. That sound right?

    I feel so like a novice here but, hey, this is how we all have to learn, right?
     
  4. Aug 20, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Mechanical gauge. Summit has some good cheap ones. You'll have to run it and bring it up to operating temperature.

    10 psi per 1000 RPM minimum is a good guess. 20 at hot idle and 40 on the highway would be good for a used engine. You also want to listen to it, so a muffler would have its advantages. IMO you might as well set it in the frame - it's easy with a Jeep. Prop up the radiator and connect everything. You could even connect the factory electric oil pressure gauge if you have one, but they are at best, mmm, advisory.

    No problem. Read and do what you can, ask questions. The forum is supposed to be a technical reference as well as interactive, so posting up is building the database.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  5. Aug 21, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Two additional points:

    You may be able to use parts from the busted engine. Disassembly and inspection is something you can do now. You can even run it and look at the oil pressure, but keep an eye on the temperature and don't overheat it. Compression check too - you can do that without running it. You probably would not reuse the pistons and rings (subbing a single used piston is a hack repair, but it's been done to patch up an otherwise decent engine). However, the compression test will also tell you something about the head, which may be useful depending on the other engine's head condition.

    If you consider reusing any parts, they must go back in exactly the same location and orientation. Mix anything up and it's all scrap.
     
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  6. Aug 21, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    For the deal I cut on the new engine, I am trading in the old one. Less crap for me to have kicking around. I already know that the bottom half is scrap iron and that there is probably more damage there than I can see from the outside. Some parts are already aside (such as the starter), but others are going to be trades. The alternators are different, and mount in different places. The older one, I was told, as made by Motorola whereas the new one is a Ford (?) unit. And I may just give in now and use the HEI version of the ignition system, too.

    The "new" engine is a 1975 model, so there's more emissions control features than I already have. For example, there is a CTO/Vacuum valve in place on the new engine EXACTLY where the crack in the old one is. Maybe that's a message right there. The carb is also different, as there are more vacuum hoses and a real EGR that the original 1974 block did not have. Those changes mean that the manifolds have to swap, too...

    In a perfect world, I would have chosen another block built in 1974, but in this case, it's a 1975. No point in using the new bottom and the old head. Might just as well leave it all 1975 vintage, and just write this up in a journal that I'm starting so that I don't forget what sort of Franken-Jeep I have made. As it is, I use the 1972 year as reference to the steering and brakes (1974 was a transition year and nobody lists the older, smaller parts under '74 compatibility).

    One day, when this thing is up and running, I owe you all a ride around the parking lot. Only one at a time, though, as the weight capacity is not much once you take my oversize frame into account!
     
  7. Aug 21, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Motorcraft.

    '75 uses the Prestolite BID electronic ignition, which is very troublesome. Use either the points distributor from the '74, a Duraspark distributor from '78 or newer, or one of the aftermarket HEI distributors.
     
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  8. Aug 21, 2019
    Jw60

    Jw60 Recovering Jeepaholic

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    I'm glad to read a progress report without any more bad news! Take your time as needed but still post often so we know you are still in the fight.
     
  9. Aug 22, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    You and me both, there!

    I am open to the universal fact that there is more that can be wrong - the new-ish engine may need a massive overhaul, the 727 may be shot, etc., but I need to be optimistic and handle this one piece at a time. No point in getting over-whelmed with things that are outside of my control. It's a lesson in patience, optimism, and most certainly in pragmatism. Learning to accept what is good enough for now, with the understanding that there is (for now) always a tomorrow to move the football from "OK for now" to "perfect".

    This weekend, I am going to pick up the new motor, next week I have the brake parts coming, then steering/linkage parts. Only thing that I cannot do right now is springs, and then getting the rust removed and painted. That'll be a later on project. I just wanna get this thing rolling again like nobody's business. We are down to my 30 day alert, so I really gotta get a move on.
     
  10. Aug 31, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    New status update. This one has been a long time coming...

    From where we last left our hero, an engine/trans swap was coming on fast. I decided to save a few bucks and buy an engine hoist off of CraigsList. That, my friends, was a mistake.

    I've never owned one before, so when I looked at it, it looked OK, I guess. And it was a 2 ton model, and had an air-assist cylinder, so how bad could it be?

    The first tip off was that it wasn't a folding model, and that it took 3 guys to lift this behemoth into the back of my truck. But, still, I had one, so I was happy. A bonafide member of the club! And the hoist sat in the truck for 2+ days, waiting for Saturday morning when I could get it into the garage area.

    And when it came to taking it off the truck, reality really hit home. Of the six wheels. one was missing, snapped off the caster base, two were crushed into squares, and of the two cast iron wheels (the other were plastic/rubber), one worked fine and the other had completely crumbled off of the axle. I saw that I'd have to buy new wheels for this to make it work. There were so many other bad signs - proof that this hoist was a bad idea. But, it was what I had, so I did my best to get it working.

    There I am, 8AM on a Saturday, off at Tractor Supply to buy replacement wheels to make the damn hoist move. I got replacements and installed them. That's when I noticed that this hoist had been seriously worked on - extra steel welded into strange places, new holes drilled, and that those broken wheels were not the original ones, either. But it's now moving (sort of) on the crappy blacktop outside of my garage/storage area. I'm a winner!

    Now, it's almost 10AM, and the sun's coming up strong, and I have to get the engine/transmission pulled.

    I start with the drive shaft - the two U bolts on the differential and two U bolts on the transmission. I am so glad that I have my Ram 2500 with all of it's foibles. If it wasn't for the fact that the front U-joints regularly fail on the damn thing, I would never have known the anatomy of a burned to death universal. End bearing caps came popping off, and the needle rollers went everywhere. OK, *those* are garbage.

    Up to the transmission by Noon. I carefully disconnect the speedometer cable from the cluster gauge and back it out through the firewall. It was cleaner than digging through the muck below to disconnect it that way. I took the shifter linkage off the handle, as I could find no way to get the end off the transmission without bending it. And then came the two bolts that held the rubber transmission mounting to the cross member. Seized is such a quaint word. Rusted in place like nobody's business was closer to reality. I ended up spending almost 30 minutes per side, and using such force that the nut and bolt both got warm to the touch. Penetrating oil, yeah. Once those were out, there were two single-bladed electrical connections and that was it. DONE!

    Now, to the engine.

    Distributor came off, and with that the cap and all wires. The wire loom above the plugs fed the coil, which fed the distributor points, and also held the wire from the temperature sender. Nice. And it was right then when I discovered (?) that my Jeep actually sends oil into the dashboard to do oil pressure! That wasn't a wire but a super narrow nylon tube! How cool is that? Finally, there's a pair of harnesses on the left side. One is the horn, lights, alternator. That was already off. The other was much shorter and fed two gizmos right near the carburetor. I kept both, and will sit down with a full schematic (which I now have) to figure out what they are/were.

    Last step is the pair of engine mounts. By now, it is 4PM. I'm soaked, head to toe, in sweat. Even drinking a bottle of water an hour (and some of those were lo-cal Gatorades) didn't keep me going. I am dead weak. My arms are shaking as I try working the wrenches. I'm in full fatigue - lactic acid cramping and everything. But I have to get this engine out of the Jeep today. There's no more putting it off. So I crawl into the back of the garage space and lay down in the shade, trying to recover some of my strength

    Unbeknownst to me, an angel comes along to help me out. My wife appears 30 minutes into my collapse with more cold fluids, a cool wet rag, a radio and some moral support. I can say now that I had pushed myself too far, and if she hadn't come along, I probably would have needed some medical help as I was seriously dehydrated and hypotensive.

    She helps me wrap the slings around the engine, watches as I fight the bolts out of the block, and then fight to get the rubber mounts off of the frame. And she's my second set of hands to get the engine out of the frame, clear from the firewall, avoid cracking the starter or flattening the exhaust downpipe, and then into some place where we can re-adjust. You see, I am trapped in a garage with a 6-foot high door. And with the Jeep on jack stands, the top of the crane boom is well above the door clearance level. So there's 3 different Hoist, Pull, Lower, Readjust cycles until it's out and swinging in the fresh 100+ degree air and sunlight.
    Pulled_Engine.jpg
    The final indignity of the day comes now. The engine is hanging by the hoist, not too far above the ground. And then, of course, one of the two front swivel wheels finally throws in the towel and collapses. I catch the crane and she's able to lower the block to the ground, those last 18 inches. But without wheels, how do we get the stand to hold the weight and (better yet) let me get the engine into the truck? Well, we unchain the engine from the hoist, fight that stubborn P.O.S. around 90 degrees, wedge a pair of low cement blocks under the front, and then re-hoist the slab o' iron. And when it's up, I carefully back the truck up under it.

    We tie the engine down straight in the truck, even though it is pretty close to the edge of the tailgate. We've got cribbing to keep it all upright, and three of those nylon web straps to secure it down and keep it from dancing. All is good.

    We lock the jeep away for the night, and we're forced to leave the crippled engine hoist right outside of the garage. No wheels meant no easy rolling, and neither of us had the energy to lift this 300+ pound relic inside.

    That's Saturday last week. And Sunday's tale to follow soon.

    I feel sorry for all of you. Every man needs a wife as special as mine. It seems that not many are able to earn (or keep) one. Somehow, twelve years ago, the stars all aligned and I was blessed by a power greater than I could ever dream of. She's my secret weapon for those times when the world gets to me. She makes sure that I get all the grease off of my elbows when I shower. Even when I'm an idjit and make lots of foolish mistakes like this time, she's always there to protect me, never to criticize. I always know that I owe her more than words can say, or money could buy. I'm happy with that.
     
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  11. Sep 4, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    So, where were we? Oh yeah.

    OK. I had the old engine out of the Jeep and ready to go (the red color is all of the clay / dust from teh 20 years in the cow pasture):
    Last_Block.jpg
    Sunday morning and I hit the highway. About a hundred miles between me and the new engine. Got there, did the swap. For a moment, we had a strange meeting of blocks:
    Both_Blocks.jpg
    The "new to me" engine is on the left, and the cracked one, leaving me, was on the right. I suspect that the previous owner of the engine (not the person selling it to me) must have done some work to it, as not only was it without parts (such as the distributor, alternator and the thermostat housing), but that it was painted in what looked like Engine Red. And from what I have scanned, AMC didn't use red on their blocks.

    Head home, and it's now well over 100 degrees again. And, now that it's right around noon, the highway is crowded with stop and go traffic. I pull over 2 times to verify that the block is strapped down tight. It doesn't move, it doesn't jiggle, so I am happy.

    One block from home, as I'm making the left turn onto my street, my truck comes off the fresh pavement onto the ground surface where new tarmac will go. And with that bump/turn combination, the engine decides to lay down with the oil filter up. I mean, at least it is still in the truck, and the web strapping is holding it down tight. But why lay down, and why now? I pull into the parking lot and head upstairs into the A/C. I will deal with this later this evening.

    It's now Eight PM on Sunday (the week before Labor Day) and the temperature has plummeted to a nipply 97 degrees. :p I muscle the engine block back upright, use pry tools to get it up, and then place more cribbing underneath to keep it straight. Restrap it down, so we're all OK again. And then I make the 4 mile drive to the storage garage where the Jeep is kept. And my wife comes along, just to make sure that I don't end up dead two days in a row.

    We get there, and suddenly, we're struck down. Overnight, some people unknown have stripped all of the useful parts from the wheel-less engine hoist. The main boom, the cylinder/ram, the chains, etc. All I now have left is the metal frame and a note that I am not allowed to leave scrap/garbage outside my unit. What the f? So I have to laugh in between the tears, and do a combo curse/flip maneuver so that the damned skeleton rests on it's back. I lump it into the locker until I feel like hauling it to a scrap yard. Maybe I can get a few bucks for the 200+ pounds of iron frame.

    Head home, and neither one of us is talking. I feel like I've been robbed (and duly so), and she's wordlessly asking me why I didn't spend the money that I'm now going to have to spend anyway to buy a new hoist, one with working wheels, legs that fold/store, etc. We get home, park the truck, jump in her car and head out for ice cream. There is nothing in this world so bad that a sugar cone of chocolate cannot fix it.

    Monday, I borrow her ride, go to Harbor Freight, buy the new hoist, bring it home. By Wednesday, it is built. I finally lift the engine off the truck, and it's sitting in the "real" garage, temporarily away from the Jeep.

    I think that this week, I'll do the brake system. I have all the parts sitting there. And once that's done, the Jeep will come off the jack stands and onto new tires. I'm feeling like it's time to have a rolling chassis over a chunk of stationary steel on stands. I've also going to try to work on the front end as well, while I'm still up in the air. Since I cannot reasonable afford the engine rebuild right now, it's gonna have to go this way.

    And that's my story for now.

    I could write a book about the lessons I have learned. Chapter one would start this way: before you even consider rebuilding anything automotive, you need a sensible and comfortable place to work. This means A/C in the summer, heat in the winter, lighting from a high ceiling, smooth floors, etc. OK, you don't need a lift or power tools. But trying to do any sort of major undertaking in the middle of a "desert" will wear you down quickly and every minor setback will leave you burning in aggravation. As much as I love this DJ-5, I probably should not have bought it until I had a real garage of my own, attached to my own home (and not an apartment), where I can have everything I need at hand. Once this is complete, if I eventually do choose to restore another older vehicle, it is certainly not going to happen until I am at a better place in my life.

    Next post will be less story and more questions. I promise.
     
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  12. Sep 4, 2019
    bigbendhiker

    bigbendhiker Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Jeff,

    First off sorry for your experiences with your first engine and your engine stand. I wanted you to know that I (and I expect others) enjoy reading your updates and progress reports. Your writing style is very easy to read and entertaining. It's like reading a novel a page or 2 at a time!

    I too live in the DFW area and know exactly what you mean about the heat and humidity. I'm not sure how you can work in the afternoon when it's upper 90's or +100 :steamed:. I know I can't. At any rate don't jeopardize your health or safety.

    I can relate to your story in another way as my first car was my mother's 1969 2 door Rambler American. It had a 199 straight 6 which was the smaller version of your engine. She bought an AMC Gremlin to replace the Rambler. It had the 232 straight 6 that you have. i guess I have some kind of strange fondness for those engines. From what I remember they had a fairly good bit of torque. I unbeknownst to my mother I used to take the Rambler on some mild off road trails around a local lake. It did fine and it was all I had. As long as you kept oil in it seemed pretty durable.

    As far as waiting until everything is right before you embark on an automotive venture/hobby/rebuild or whatever..........Hmmm.. Off and on for the last 25 to 30 years I have wanted to purchase an older Jeep to work on and drive. It was usually a Jeepster Commando, a CJ3b, or a J20 that I was interested in. But, there was always some reason to not get one. Might be money, work, kids, family, time. You can always find a reason not too, but you've done well to overcome whatever isn't "just right" and pursue your passion.

    Anyway, enough from me. Keep writing and carry on!
     
  13. Sep 4, 2019
    Jw60

    Jw60 Recovering Jeepaholic

    Sedalia MO.
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    I had to rent an engine hoist for my swap.
    I made a big set of saw horses and used ratchet straps to get it in the right spot for the new mounts
    The old engine was dead. I did a 4cyl to v6 swap with a month left on my lease with rent split x5 there was no way I could add a month. Wound up driving it to the new apartment's parking lot without exhaust. After finishing a lot of it on the curbside next door. It is a lot more fun looking back.
     
  14. Sep 9, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    It was too darn hot over the weekend for me to do anything. This means... It's Question Time!

    Question One: Looking at the steering mechanism, I see something like steering gear goes down to Pitman Arm, which connects to drag link, which connects to the tie rod. Are the drag link ends exactly the same as tie rod ends? Meaning that I need to buy two lefts and two rights instead of just a single left/right pair?

    Question Two: The old alternator that came with the original (RIP) block had five wires on it. Two are spade connector style in a single housing, one is a THICK RED coming off a nut on the perimeter, the other two are thinner wires, and they come from off the perimeter as well. My new-with-the-replacement-engine Delco-Remy alternator has a very different configuration on it. Again, there's two male spade blades, but in a different shape so the plug I have won't fit. Any wiring suggestions? Or should I just bite the bullet, buy a new alternator in the old style and use the Delco as a core? If it matters, the Delco looks bigger and weighs a whole lot more than the other one.

    Question Three: The old Borg M-11 transmission had two male spade connectors on the right side of the housing. After digging through the TSM wiring schematics, they are labelled as "Downshift Solenoid Wire" and "TCS Solenoid Wire". The new-to-me A727 does not have these, of course. The downshifting is controlled via a hard linkage to the throttle. The TCS wire did something related to emissions, I think. Now that the new tranny does not use these, should I worry about them? Should I chase them back up to the engine and disconnect them? How far back can I chase it? I ask because they both look like they're stubs off of other lines, and may no longer serve a purpose. I do not want to remove all of the emissions gear (like the EGR and the charcoal canister), but what about these other things?

    Question Four: That oil gauge in the dash does use a manual read. I verified that it really *is* a thin hose from the right side of the engine block up to the gauge. Do I have to bleed the air out of the line once the engine starts running in order to get an accurate reading? Does the system manage to do that for me automagically?

    Question Five: On the drive shaft, there's a large spline hidden up at the front end with a grease fitting. The TSM shows that there's a cap and grease seal there, but it's all blown to crap on mine. Is this still available? Where do you go for a drive shaft grease seal and cap?

    Question Six: While I'm on the drive line, talk to me about those U-bolts that hold the U-Joints. Are those standard sized? The threads on mine are pretty crufty, and I don't have a set of taps that I can chase them with. I would just prefer to buy new ones, but they don't look like the plain ol' muffler ones - the bottoms seem to be more flat/squished where they contact the caps of the universals.

    Question Seven: Back to the transmission. Since the M-11 did not have either a Neutral Safety or Backup Light control circuit, this was done out of the transmission. Should I bother rewiring so that I now use these new functions, or just leave the plug be and leave well enough alone?

    I think that this may be all I have to ask right now. I plan on pulling the front end apart this week, together with the brakes, bearings and kingpins and possibly patching it all up before the weekend comes.
     
  15. Sep 11, 2019
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member

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    1 yes there are two sets
    2 look up mad electric on the web for easy wiring the delco is the way to go
    3 ditch the wires on the trans hack em off and seal the ends
    4 the air wont affect the gauge
    5 measure the hole and get a welch plug to fit McMaster carr should have em
    6 the flaps should have ujoint u bolts in stock
    7 if the original was handled with the shifter and you use the same shifter they should still work as they did if not wire em to the multi function switch on the trans
     
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  16. Sep 16, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Short update. Master cylinder off - it was bone dry. New one just needs to be bench bled before going in. Front hubs are off and getting new bearing races pressed in. The old ones were scored, the bearings scratchy, and slightly discolored. The axle spindles have no grooves that my fingernails can detect, and there was no discoloration at that level, which is a relief.

    Next is to get the brake gear off the front, then swap out the kingpin assemblies, then tie rods, and it all goes back together again once the weather gets chilly (below 95 degrees, that is).

    Holding off on the engine/transmission until I get a bit more disposable cash to play with.

    j
     
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  17. Oct 6, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Another weekend, another bunch of lessons learned!

    Lesson Number One: To some joker out there in this world, cotter pins are load bearing devices. That must be the only reason I can think of as to why the one on the castle nut for the Pitman Arm was tack welded as well as having both legs bent and hammered totally around the whole thing. What a disaster. Thank goodness the tack was very superficial - a whack or 10 with a heavy hammer split it and I was able to get the old pin out. Did I miss that memo about welding cotter pins?

    Lesson Number Two: Oh, yeah, the instructions say that using a Pickle Fork makes taking ball joints apart easier. What they neglected to say was that you gotta beat on that baby sorta like Keith Moon used to approach drum solos. Don't use a soft dead-blow hammer, either! Wasted 15 minutes with that approach. Go for the biggest piece of hammering steel you can swing. I used a 5 pound single hand sledge. And then you beat the living daylights out of the accursed tool until both the ball joint and the fork scream UNCLE at the same time, and in harmony. Wear safety goggles and watch out for the fingers!

    Lesson Number Three: DO NOT TRUST on-line parts catalogs. I purchased a Left and Right tie rod end. Seemed simple enough at the start. But, then, once you get the parts apart, you realize that things are not as pretty as they seem. First off, it is the drag link that has the two simple looking ball joints. And, of course, nobody says that they have drag link ends. The AM General part reference shows that the Drag Link ends are not the same part as the Tie Rod ends, so this may be a case of useless parts again.

    As for the tie rod itself, well, that is another can of worms. The right (driver) side seems OK/normal, but the left side is where the fun comes in. Take a look at this end:
    Left_Tie_Rod_End.jpg

    Who put that loop in the middle of my tie rod end? Yeah, I realize that this is where the ball joint for the drag link goes - you can't leave it out. But this custom shape now means the piece is not easily found! I know that the AM General part number is 5950744, maybe. The manual says that this part has right handed threads, but it's on the left side of the Jeep. Isn't that supposed to have a left hand thread? I can't tell right now - the existing four ball joints are so deeply rusted in place, I have to figure out if there is an easy way to get them out without resorting to a torch.

    So, now that this is an exotic part, I can't seem to find one. None of the local auto parts places can find it - nobody has one with the loop (and the bend) in it. There has to be a simple solution (besides building a time machine so I can go back and stock up on these).:gaah:

    This week's after work project is to get the ends out of the middle (and count the turns as I do it), and then figure out how to get the steering damper off of the center (I either need to cut the nut or use Vise Grips on the shaft so that it doesn't spin). More to follow as I make (or don't make) progress.
     
  18. Oct 18, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Dallas Metroplex...
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    It took two weeks of labor and just over a half can of Deep Creep, but I managed to get the last tie rod end free. Of course, it just so happens to be the one that's pictured above. Probably because I am paranoid about breaking it into bits and pieces if I have to re-use it.

    And, it seems as if I may not have to reuse it after all. There's a place (http://www.rareparts.com) that has something similar. I've ordered it and hope it will fit. They show that this is the right front inner tie rod end for a Jeep CJ-5 1959-1971 vintage. No promises, but it may work. Anybody else with an early CJ5 (here, at this forum? Nah!) seen one of these?

    After that, we swap out the kingpins and then the whole front end goes back together. What an exciting time for me.

    PS: How in this world do you torque a ball joint nut? Once it starts getting tight, won't the ball just swivel in it's socket?
     
  19. Oct 18, 2019
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member

    exploring the...
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    The taper should grab and allow tightening
     
  20. Oct 23, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Straight outta Bellevue! 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Dallas Metroplex...
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    Spent Saturday working on the little monster. All freakin' day swinging Mr. Hammer to drive out the kingpin retainers, sometimes called draw keys:

    Kingpin_Retainers.jpg

    They were seriously stuck in there. I learned quickly that you hit them with Brake Cleen and you can see which side of the pin has the taper, so you know which way to beat the living daylights outta them. And, yes, the wide ends are hammered over - the last rocket scientist who put these in didn't stop when they stopped, but mushroomed them pretty badly. And these pieces are about an inch long and quarter inch in diameter. What are ya trying to prove here?

    Probably the same guy who tack welded my cotter pins.

    Now, you'd wager money that the actual kingpin should pop out at this point, right? We're talking about my mail jeep, so the answer is NOPE! I removed the Zerk fittings (because I learned that hammering on them is a Bad Idea (TM). And I swung that sledge like John Henry himself. Nothing moved. I raised the jeep up on a jack, using the kingpin as the lift point, and that didn't budge it.

    If I grab the steering knuckle and push/pull, you see the kingpin move within the upper and lower axle ends. These pins are stuck tight in the actual knuckle. I have zero idea now about the best way to get them out. I've sprayed with penetrating oil to no avail. I may have to buy a propane torch and see if I can carefully heat the center section of the knuckle without damaging the heat treatments of the axle (and the knuckle itself). When I put the new kingpins in, however, they're getting a healthy coating of anti-seize on them. That stuff is cheap enough - why not make sure that I can get the pieces apart just in case I have to revisit these?

    On a separate note, I did something totally unlike me. I gave myself permission to sit down in the jeep and envision what the future will be like when we're back on four wheels and able to self-propel. Here's one more photo of the way things look right now (with the hood temporarily down over the nothingness):

    No_Front_End.jpg

    One day, the front end will be done, so that the brakes can be adjusted and bled, so that the wheels can go on, so that we can drop the motor back in, so that maybe we can get it moving again. Baby steps, but each one moving in the right direction. I think I am gonna get a jumbo Post-It note, write the remaining steps on it and then stick it to the wall. This way, I have the satisfaction of seeing things come off of the to-do list.
     
    Twin2, sterlclan, Jw60 and 1 other person like this.

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