Delima On Paint Look And Practically

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by mickeykelley, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. Jun 18, 2017
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Member

    Republic of Texas
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    So I'm starting to think about paint. I'm thinking red, maybe the original Willys Presidential Red. First, back in the 50's I'm guessing the paint was just a single stage? The new paint everyone talks about appears to basically be the paint plus a clear coat. But with the cover to protect it, you end up with a very shinny look, but that's now how they originally looked, right? Maybe I'm overthinking this.

    Second, most of the time I'll just be driving it around on normal streets to enjoy it. Shinny paint is ok and nice looking, I'm happy. But if I decide to do some trails and a tree rubs the side, not so shinny. Now I feel bad.

    Anyone else ever had this delima? I just hate the crystallized Rustoleum yuck on it now, but it is functional.
     
  2. Jun 18, 2017
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy Sponsor

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    Yes, originally they used a single stage paint. That stuff is messy to spray compared to modern BC/CC. It will fade over time. If you scuff it hard, it won't buff out. But, it's original.

    Modern BC/CC is not original but, I'm told much easier to spray. It will be shiny. Less likely to fade over time. Light scuffs will buff out of the clear and not affect the color.

    If I was doing anything but a correct restoration, I'd likely opt for the BC/CC. That's just me. Everyone has their opinion. My Tuxedo Park will get an original type paint job.

    ed.- Another thing is rain spots and hard water. It has really cut into my '71s straight enamel paint over the years. In a BC/CC paint you can buff it out much better without getting into the color. I suppose you can put clear coat over the single stage paints if you want. There may even be options in clear coats for gloss, semi-gloss, or matte.
     
  3. Jun 18, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    I went with single stage two part polyurethane. Modern catalyzed paint is pretty tough, the guy at the paint store said it should be good for about 10 years before it gets looking dull.

    H.
     
  4. Jun 18, 2017
    Mark Wahlster

    Mark Wahlster Member

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    I own a 98 Dodge Dakota with factory two stage on it. As a result I wouldn't paint anything with a clear coat once that shit starts falling off nothing you do short of a sand down and repaint will make the rig look good again. A worn out single stage just looks worn out. My Dakota looks like shit. NOT A FAN OF CLEAR COATS
     
  5. Jun 18, 2017
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

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    IMO single-stage is fine unless you are spraying metallic. Yes, the modern clear coats are very glossy compared to the single stage paints used in the day. My feeling is that modern cars are sprayed with BC-CC routinely for economic reasons as well as appearance. My black VW is BC-CC, and the clear coat on the roof is starting to fail after 22 years in the sun.

    Get the color sheet for the Kirker paints and pick a solid color. This paint is very well regarded, and inexpensive. Kirker Paint Sample Color Chips: Auto Body Toolmart
     
  6. Jun 19, 2017
    Mark Wahlster

    Mark Wahlster Member

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    Im painting with Kirker a non metalic med blue.
     
  7. Jun 19, 2017
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

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    Todays single stage is just the same paint with the clear coat mixed in. Its what I use because its how I learned to paint tooling. Yeah, not a car painter. The original stuff was probably a lacquer based paint that could easily be hand rubbed to a high gloss finish. Over time it could craze and fade. It was relatively safe compared to modern style finishes to apply. My preference for the modern single stage is the ability to buff out an abrasion and still have the clear mixed in with the base. I never do that though. I also don't have nice modern equipment.

    If you do it yourself, the new paints require you to have the proper PPE or you could get very injured and possibly die. I believe the newest stuff is waterborne now and a lot less dangerous. No experience with the auto version of that stuff, just some old spec'ed out paint I shot on 20 years ago that was pure garbage.

    I like red jeeps. Orange is the best though.:)
     
  8. Jun 19, 2017
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

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    Mmm. The waterborne paints may be better for the environment, but I expect they are still a significant hazard. The catalyzed paints (2K) use an isocyanate compound (derived from cyanide) to cure the paint. It's not hazardous once cured, but it will really mess you up if you inhale much of it or (to a lesser degree) get it on you. The pros use a full face fresh-air respirator and fresh-air ventilated suit, because they shoot this stuff every day, and can't take the chance of build-up from minor exposure. I use a full tyvek suit, respirator, goggles, gloves, and I spray in an open garage or outdoors - not an endorsement, just what I do.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
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  9. Jun 19, 2017
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Member

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    Just got done painting my Jeep. Went BC/CC. Saying that spraying 2 stage is easy, I may question that. Maybe I want everything perfect, but it is hard to get the clear coat to look good, orange peel, runs, etc. Cleared my tub 3 times and final got it to where I like it. To be honest, I think I have figured out how to spray clear coat and have it lay down right and I am done painting.

    There is a art to spraying automotive paint. I feel you have do spray a lot, to be good at it.
     
  10. Jun 19, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    Same thing with single stage I'm afraid. I was upset with the orange peel when I did Tonk but then I noticed new cars have it too these days.

    I agree & you have to have a controlled environment if you want consistency- the water base paints really seem to be sensitive to how they lay down with regards to temperature.

    H.
     
  11. Jun 19, 2017
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

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    I have only shot BC-CC black, but supposedly it's easier than single stage for metallic paint. The trick is to shoot the color coat thinly and just covered, not wet. This will give you a consistent appearance. The gloss is provided by the CC. It is difficult to spray single-stage metallic and have the appearance be consistent over the whole car. Mixing, gun angle, pressure, simply the amount of paint put down - changes the appearance of the SS paint.

    Also, your base coat does not have to be catalyzed, so that makes PPE, prep and clean up a little easier.

    Actually, I think reduced material costs is a central motivation for the car companies adopting BC-CC universally. The color coat (especially with pigments like red and orange) is expensive compared to clear, and over thousands of cars, the savings in pigment and flake or pearl add up.
     
  12. Jun 19, 2017
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

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    In the 70's metal flake paint really was METAL flake. You would shoot the paint on then apply the flakes and bury it in lacquer. Thats why 70's metal flake paint jobs look so thick. Because it is! The boss worked in a paint shop in the 70's before modern pre cat stuff and had a jar of real metal flake. He told me all about it. Shoot the lacquer paint on, hand buff, then shoot on some more clear and let that lacquer melt into the previous coat until you had like 10 or more coats built up to cover the flakes... Don't put on too much or it will all melt, sag and fall off... oh noes!!!
     
  13. Jun 19, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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  14. Jun 19, 2017
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Member

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    The paint I used had some metallic and a lot of pearl. Dealing with pearl was a learning experance .

    Some time I will base coat in the evening, then clear the next day.
     
  15. Jun 19, 2017
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

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    You should never wait to apply the clear coat till the next day. Apply the base, switch or clean the gun, and clear it, preferably in less than 30 minutes. This way, the two coats "melt" together, making a chemical bond that will act as a single finish. Letting the base dry, then coating with clear is a perfect recipie for peeling a clear layer in a year or so.
    The only way to have the clear bond over a dry base is to block it with very fine paper, and thats only over non-metallics.
    -Donny
     
  16. Jun 21, 2017
    Snouts out

    Snouts out Member

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    Mickey,if you use it off road,you'll get brush marks,maybe worser! Any 4wheel drive vehicle that dosn't have brush marks,trail paint,hasn't been used for it's intended purpose! Don't worry about it, in the Army we would paint e'm with brooms.
     
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  17. Jun 24, 2017
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member Sponsor

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    A single stage paint when scuffed is still the same color a little buff and you are good. Bccc wil scratch to white and is also buffable. imho a single stage urethane 2k product is the best choice for a wheeling rig. Practice makes perfect as far as finish.
     
  18. Jun 24, 2017
    Wenaha

    Wenaha Member

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    I had my flattie painted last year. We used a tan base coat and 2 coats of semi-gloss CC. Looks awesome. So my point is CC does not HAVE to be shiny.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Jun 24, 2017
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

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    I would mention - paints are dulled by adding a flattener, typically talc. This makes the finish flat, but also makes the finish softer. Shiny paint or clear coat will be the most resistant to chips and scratches.
     
  20. Jun 24, 2017
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member Sponsor

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    Too much flattener will reduce the lifespan of the finish. I have a dozen or so jobs going on twenty years old,longer than a repaint should last. All are single stage ureathane. Have a few at fifteen in bccc. Surface prep and proper application and flash times are critical. The best painter is only as good as the prep allows him or hew to be.
     

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