D25

So I am looking to upgrade my front axle, and would like to know what the stock one with a truetrac is worth. I need to be able to justify buying a 44

 

No experience with this, but I think the D25 from a CJ is basically a throw-away axle to most of the world. If someone had a CJ they wanted to restore, they might want it. I think they would expect to get it for free or near-free.

I think the best course would be to remove the TrueTrac and sell that separately, then sell the axle as parts. Probably some interest in spindles, hubs and axles, maybe the gears. Market is limited, might take a while to sell. Likely you'll have to scrap the housing if it had no gears and case/carrier.

You could gauge interest in the WTB section here. Advertise and make it clear you'll have to remove it from the Jeep for sale - I presume that's allowed.

 

Like they said, they are basically scrap metal. I usually will give 25-50 for a complete axle if it has nice lock outs on it that aren't all beat up with rock rash. Drive flanges resale for less than lock outs. The true trac will bring you a few bucks. I didn't realize they made a true trac for Dana 25s.

One thing........Dana 44's aren't an easy upgrade for the front of a narrow cj5. The Roxor axle may be an option. You can look into that in the Roxor section here on the site. Member Nickmil has built a couple custom front 44's for narrow track cjs if i remember correctly. Apparently there are serious obstacles to consider in building one. Honestly, the dana 30 is a good choice. The 25 really isn't a bad axle and some will argue that's it's superior in strength to the 27.

 

Why?

 

Width being first and foremost. The CJ narrow track 30 is the most common and easiest upgrade.

 

As I recall Nick saying, and don't hold me to this, it was many years ago, narrowing a Dana 44 to ECJ5 width is a hassle on the passenger side because of how the leaf spring needs to mount to the cast iron housing. Something about that as I recall. Try searching the site for narrowed Dana 44 front axle or something like that. Maybe something will come up.

 

Buy a rotor 44!! No mods needed other than gearing.
Jay

 

Depends on the axle source. I think most end up outboarding the springs. But you can build one on the factory 27.5" spring centerlines. The passenger side perch is indeed into the cast housing and it takes some custom work. A D30 is way easier and can be built almost as strong. It is also likely to be a much cheaper option.

 

I'm thinking off an IH scout, guy said $325. Is that fair? A good idea? It's got discs as well.

 

The Scout axles is wider than a CJ axle, and has a weird geometry, from what I've read. It also has a very long steering arm on the spindle. Not really great. I think you'd be better off with a Wagoneer axle, '74-79, and use Ford hubs to convert to the 5 on 5.5" pattern. You'd need to outboard the springs, since the Wagoneer axles are a few inches wider than the CJ (as are the Scout axles). You can search old posts here and find many threads about this. site:earlyCJ5.com scout axle swap - Bing

How green are you? Have you wheeled the 25? Did you break it? It already has a LSD, and that's one of the upgrades you were asking about. The only reason to go to a 44 is to lessen the chance of breaking the axle. Whether that happens mostly depends on the driver's skill. The 30 from a CJ has advantages like bolt-in compatibility and tighter turning radius, lower maintenance and better durability (mostly due to the superior open knuckle design). All came with big brakes, either drum or disk. Stronger than the 25 or 27, and can be built even stronger. A significant upgrade.

 

I bought a pair of those for $300. The $325 will be the tip of the proverbial iceberg. A lot of those Scout II axles are 3.07 gears and there goes another couple of grand by the time you get them replaced with something more suitable. The Scout axles have zero degrees caster from the factory and you can't really correct this with repositioning the spring perches without making for some big, adverse angles on the front driveshaft. To make them truly work, the knuckle "C's" need to be cut loose, rotated, and rewelded. As Tim said, they also have really long steering arm knuckles. But you can replace those knuckles with other D44 versions or aftermarket. Just more $. The Scout version also uses an 8 hole spindle. It is stronger than the Jeep/GM/Ford 6 bolt spindles but it limits you to the 27 spline external hubs which are not as strong as the 19 spline internal versions. My Scout axles ended up under my buddies Willys wagon.

My experience with the D25/D27's is that the spider gears are the weakest component, followed by axle shafts. I never did have a problem with ring and pinions in either although the thickness of the D25 ring gear certainly makes one wonder how those stay together. The better traction devices (like a Powr-Loc) have 4 spiders gears which solves part or that. There really isn't a cure for the axle shafts. I think the Spicer version is the strongest but when I blew up the short side shaft in my 3B it literally did blow up. About 1.5" of it just pulverized into approximately 1/8 more or less rectangular shards and totally destroyed both the seal and the seal seat.

I ended up with a narrowed 78 Ford F250 D44HD axle with the 1/2" wall tubes in my 3B. I don't really want to know how much I spent on that but you could probably buy a decent complete Jeep for the sum. That said, with the F250 housing, Reid knuckles, Yukon gears, ARB locker and Dutchman 4340 axles, it probably is about as strong as you can make a D44.

I still believe the bolt-in D30 is absolutely the best option for most folks. It uses a lot of the same pieces as the D44 and you get the 30 spline axle shafts. But if you have a high powered engine and 35" or bigger tires, perhaps something other than a D30 may be warranted. Tyler, what are the plans for the rest of this Jeep? Use/modifications?

 

John, do you mean 8 bolt hub, not 8 bolt spindle? If the spindle has 8 bolts, then I'd think it would require the IHC knuckle.

 

The Scout 2 front Dana 44 used 8 bolt spindles like Duffer posted. you can redrill the spindle which is questionable or redrill a Jeep knuckle. The caliper bracket is also 8 bolt.

to the OP, there is no factory Jeep narrow track 44, they have to be custom built or use the new Roxor units. When I was building them we had to custom build them. We used the front tubes and knuckles and a carrier from a rear Dana 44 with the right diameter tubes. This allowed us with a little work to build the housing in any configuration needed, spring over, spring under, high or low pinion, etc. and we could set the pinion and caster angles exactly where we want. The center cast in pad can cause some issues unless you have a mill and/or lathe big enough to machine them. Don’t forget the paths for the u-bolts, pinion/carrier offset, etc.. It’s these details that trip people up.

I agree, for most people with 33” tires and smaller a 30 is typically plenty strong, upgradable, and is the most cost effective.

just for full disclosure I did this for a shop part-time for 20 plus years. Just for an experiment I once narrowed a Dana 60 front in my home driveway just to experience how to do it without the “proper” equipment. Can be done but don’t recommend it.

 

So what years/Jeep’s are the best donor for a d30 with disk brakes, and 4.88 gears. So far I’ve not found one.

 

Since Jeep didn’t offer one in that configuration you won’t unless someone already changed gear ratios.

personally my favorite disc brake Dana 30 is the ‘77-‘79 with the heavier disc brakes. The ‘79-to I forget what year with the lighter brakes but 6 bolt locking hubs works just fine for most folks running 33” and under tires. I’m not a fan of the 5 bolt locking hubs. Too problematic and I’ve seen far too many break. These can be converted to 6 bolt by using 6 bolt wheel bearing hubs and matching locking hubs. Just another expense.

 

Yep, but Reid Racing solved that problem. I didn't see the IH knuckles listed on Reid's site so maybe they are now discontinued. Reid actually puts SN's on those parts and mine were 20 and 31 for the left and right respectively. Other than the 8 hole spindle configuration, those knuckles are GM flat top, 4 bolt high steer arm style with GM length integral steering arms (which I did utilize). And you get a pre-flipped tie rod------

 

To OP: Taking this quickly built mountain of good info, I’d suggest it’s all about balance. What are you goals/intended uses as you build this thing? You keeping the I4? There’s some proven formulas with these old rigs and the Dana 30 swap is one of them. They are not hard to find. You’ll get a two hole knuckle too and they are easy to work on.
Generally as you move to 35’s, components need to be upgraded to handle the increased stress...even then, there are guys here that have built real four wheeling Jeeps with the D30 and 35’s with no issues.