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Buffs 58 cj5 build

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Lilbuff63, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. Jan 9, 2017
    Lilbuff63

    Lilbuff63 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Sonoma County Ca
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    I see you are running Holbrooks, I am considering them instead of yj springs, how do you like them? My only two concerns is axle placement and cost if they need to be replaced. The yj setup is a bit more work but only $90 a piece to replace leafs in the future. Holbrook setup is $1250 now, I believe, but maybe they are built to last. Also, with the spring hangers moving inward toward the center of the frame do the axles remain in stock location? I like the idea of not outboarding my spring hangers for sure!
     
  2. Jan 10, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

    Northern California
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    I sold my old CJ5 chassis with the Holdbrooks.............but everyone I've ever talked with that had them liked them............they are quite flexy and your driving style would have to change some to accommodate the additional lean while driving on the highway and of course the same on the trails...........a hardtop might even add to the pucker factor because of the higher COG............I really think the hot setup was a front swaybar for the street and disconnects for the trail...........best of both worlds. Look at my build and I squeezed a CJ sway bar into my old 5 chassis..........can be done just not allot of room...................No change in axle location, just the inner fixed mounts get moved in from both ends.
     
  3. Jan 17, 2017
    Running Bare

    Running Bare New Member

    Enumclaw WA
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    Dec 12, 2016
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    Have you decided which way to go?
    Question Tarry99 have you drove both set ups one with Holbrook and a YJ conversion like from Rocky road? I have been told that flex is better with holbrook but you loose a lot on the road. ? any experience to add on that?
     
  4. Jan 17, 2017
    Lilbuff63

    Lilbuff63 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Sonoma County Ca
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    I'm still researching, kind of leaning towards Holbrooks just for the fact that I won't have to outboard the spring/shackle hangers. I am starting from scratch though with all of my hangers/perches already removed. From what I've seen rocky roads kit looks like a pretty clean installation, a little bulky though. My one hesitation with Holbrook is the cost of replacing the springs when they wear out. I think their kit is $1150 for cj5's, rocky road is $1450 but when you have to replace springs they are only $90 a piece or so. So RR is a bit more work up front but much more replaceable later. It seems like as soon as I talk myself into one setup I talk myself right back out of it!:confused: Anybody else have any comments one way or the other?
     
  5. Jan 17, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Just what I mentioned above............Holbrooks are flexy and ride very nice, but do to their extended length will have more body roll.
    No on the YJ's , but do to the fact the conversion ones are near CJ spring length , one would have to fully understand the spring rates of these to get exactly what you're looking for...........When I was going to use a similar YJ type spring , I was looking for Deaver to build a longer spring at both ends with thinner leaves.
     
  6. Jan 17, 2017
    Lilbuff63

    Lilbuff63 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Sonoma County Ca
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    Thank you Tarry! I see what you're saying about the length. Yj springs are only about an inch longer than cj springs while Holbrooks are I think 7" longer. I didn't get that on your first reply, thanks for clearing that up!
     
    Tom_Hartz likes this.
  7. Jan 18, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Spring rates , spring materials and length all play an important part in allowing the spring to do it's job within a confined area.......the only correct way to get exactly what you want under your ride is to weigh each corner and have them built........

    Holbrooks are expensive , but are not unique in any way............your just paying for them folks to do all the thinking and packaging all the parts. They do have a few different options based on weight carried . like a winch in the front and the other for a rear mounted spare tire. Good people to work with.....Old Jeepers that have cut many trails.........there springs are military wrapped and I have not heard of many failures after years of use.
     
  8. Jan 18, 2017
    Running Bare

    Running Bare New Member

    Enumclaw WA
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    I have not ordered. But I think rocky road will when out. My needs are ride and total drivability first then as much wheel travelflex possible with out messing with that. Cost seems comparable when you figure shocks and break lines. Little more work. Hopefully I will be up for it. I run 33 tires should get 3 to 3.5 lift I am told thinking that is all I need. But from other post we have seen will also go with the heavier old man emu spring. Hope to pull trigger soon.
     
  9. Jan 28, 2017
    Lilbuff63

    Lilbuff63 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Sonoma County Ca
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    IMG_2375.JPG Finally got my ball joints pressed in, went to my neighbors shop and used his electric press, so easy! In the instructions that came with the ball joints they say to put the upper ball joint zerk fitting towards the rear of the vehicle. Doing this on the d30 did not leave enough room for the zerk to thread in so I put it facing towards the axle, hopefully this is ok! IMG_2378.JPG
     
  10. Jan 29, 2017
    Lilbuff63

    Lilbuff63 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Sonoma County Ca
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    Got the knuckles installed and torqued IMG_2384.JPG IMG_2385.JPG IMG_2386.JPG the instructions for the moog ball joints said 70 ft lbs on the lower, 70 on the split collar and 100 on the upper castellated nut. I know the jeep specs say 50 on the split collar but I went with the moog recommendation. Now I'm ready to put the outer axles back together. It doesn't seem like anybody makes a decent outer axle tube seal for the d30 cj axles, has anyone used anything worth trying?
     
  11. Jan 29, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

    Northern California
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    As I mentioned before that truss will limit your bump axle travel above.......... as it will limit travel and hit the frame earlier than normal.
     
  12. Jan 29, 2017
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    The Jeepster race cars, back when I worked for a dealership, initially had trussed 30s for the front axles. However, the truss was under the axle, not over it. They would also weld between the housing and the tubes. I don't see how an axle with a truss on top like that can work on a CJ-5. It will significantly reduce the suspension travel. Remove it.

    Also, the mechanics of this truss design are bass ackwards - this design with the truss on top puts the truss in compression, which is backwards. It should be on the underside of the axle, so that the truss is in tension on a hard landing. Bad.

    From about 1976 on, the race cars stopped using a truss and just welded around the perimeter of the tubes, from the tubes to the housing. The factory claimed that the tubes and housing were strengthened so that no truss was needed.

    If I were going to truss this axle, I would use a piece of bar stock from the inside edge of one spring pad, under the housing, to the other inside edge of the spring pad. You only need to reinforce the tube-to-housing joint on the long side, so the bar-to-the-pad on the short side only serves to anchor the whole truss in tension - that is, when the Jeep is landing hard.

    I would comment that you don't need a truss on this axle unless you plan to get a lot of air (ie launch the Jeep into the air) for racing. You won't break this axle in normal use, unless you intentionally try to launch it in the air. In that case, you will also need frame reinforcements to prevent breaking the frame. My suggestion is to cut off the truss.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  13. Jan 29, 2017
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    trussNoWhiteSpace.png

    This is the type of truss that you want ... if you wanted a truss.
    Use maybe 1.25"x.25" bar stock and go from spring pad to spring pad, under the housing.
    Fill in between the axle and the bar, or short sections as shown.
    Weld around the housing joint at the green line. That's where these axles break if abused.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  14. Jan 29, 2017
    Lilbuff63

    Lilbuff63 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Sonoma County Ca
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    Thank you guys, point taken! I was going to leave it on until I got everything mocked up just to see, but that would be a pain, it's coming off! I was just trying to avoid grinding something off that the previous owner put on. I will not be jumping the cj and probably will mostly be doing trails in the Sierras, mild rock crawling at low speeds.
     
  15. Aug 9, 2017
    Lilbuff63

    Lilbuff63 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Sonoma County Ca
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    Well I'm back at it again, finally got my garage back after installing all brand new windows, trim and siding on my house last year. As stated before my axles are done and I'm now working on getting the leaf springs set up, hangers welded (tacked for now), shackles installed, rear gas tank skid plate mounted, and anything else I can think of to weld to the frame before I get it sandblasted and ready to paint.
    IMG_2803.JPG
    IMG_2772.JPG

    IMG_2771.JPG
    Got some nuts welded on for the gas tank skid plate
    IMG_2802.JPG
    IMG_2801.JPG
    I might run into a problem with my shackle bolts hitting the skid plate at full droop but I think I can cut the corner of the skid plate closer to the radius of the tank and be ok. Next I will get the hangers roughly set until I can get the body on and the motor and transmission in to get closer to real weight. Here's some more pics of my front bumper from Motobilt, and shackles from Crabtree tool and die.
    IMG_2800.JPG
    Haven't gotten rid of the axle truss yet.
    IMG_2805.JPG
    IMG_2757.JPG
    The shackles are pretty beefy at 3/8" thick and really unnecessary and probably the main problem with the skid plate but they are awesome and I'm willing to work around them!
     
  16. Aug 10, 2017
    Muzikp

    Muzikp Sponsor Sponsor

    Sacramento Ca.
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    Are you going to box your frame? I've been working on boxing mine while the tub is on it. Looking at yours in this state it looks so easy to box compared to how I'm doing it. Everything looks great so far, going to be a nice build.
     
  17. Aug 10, 2017
    Focker

    Focker That's what I do, I know things and I fix stuff. Staff Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    That's a good looking bumper.
     
  18. Aug 10, 2017
    Lilbuff63

    Lilbuff63 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Sonoma County Ca
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    That is the plan, especially with the springs being 2-1/2" wide and the hangers being outboard slightly I will bolt, weld and gusset them for added support. I started making some templates with cardboard to follow the curves of the frame and will go from there with 3/16" material. I will get it sandblasted prior to boxing.
     
  19. Aug 10, 2017
    scott milliner

    scott milliner Master Fabricator

    Seattle Wa.
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    Dec 17, 2002
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    I think your springs are backward. The arrow should point forward. The RR Kit instruction were not very good, and didn't say anything about it. So I thought it made sense, so that how I ran mine.
    I did take it in for an alignment. The caster for a CJ5 is 5-7 degrees. Mine was 2 degrees, but still drives great even at freeway speeds. I also didn't use any of the degree shims provided.
    I did put the springs that were over the spring rate on the drivers side. ( Based on the +, |, and 0 simples.) I figured being I was driving mostly alone that more weight would be there.
    The 3.5" OME springs do have body roll while cornering, but nothing that is to pucker factor. Even off road I've drifted around a corner on a logging road with no problem.
     
  20. Aug 10, 2017
    Lilbuff63

    Lilbuff63 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Sonoma County Ca
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    You are correct, they were just mocked up and have since flipped them and installed spring/shackle hangers. In the rear they will be "backwards" because I'm using heavy front springs all the way around and main spring eye is bigger. I didn't get the RR kit because I bought some other stuff from them and there customer service was terrible!
     

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