Buying A Used Lathe, What Should I Know?

I have been interested for a while now in learning how to use a metal lathe in hopes to one day make cool things for my Jeep. That said, I really don’t know much more than the fact that lathes spin. Coincidentally, a friend of mine says he has two of his grandfather’s old lathes and “a bunch of stuff” to go with them; that he would like to sell. I haven’t seen them yet, but I wouldn’t know how to inspect them or come up with a fair price for them (he asked me to make an offer). I probably would try to jiggle the chuck and say “yup, it’s a lathe”. It would be greatly appreciated if you have any info for me, and I’ll hear whatever anyone has to share, including good websites/and forums that would be of value. Thank you!

 

A new lathe will run you 5-6 grand that will come with modern chucks and safety stuff.

Don't spend more than a grand on old junk even if it comes with a pile of rusty tooling. And yes, if someone says make me an offer, it's junk. If it has belts or jackshaft, walk away unless its free.

There are exceptions to this, such as monarch lathes and bullit or schaublin..

Everyone has their grandfathers craftsman/atlas with junk zemak gears and what not.. Just let them stay where they are unless they are free.. Even then..

So, looking at a lathe, I don't want to deal with change gears. It must have a lead screw. It must be able to cut threads. Used lathes must come with a good 3 jaw scrolling chuck and a 4 jaw that you indicate your work in. They will also need to come with a tool post, preferably a quick change. It better come with a bunch of other stuff too.. And it needs to be less than 1k. You're also going to need to transport it, that's a pita and you risk damage in loading and unloading.

The 5-6 grand will get a lathe delivered to your house with NEW chucks and d-1 or whatever modern backplates. Keep that in mind when looking at old stuff and the idea of transporting one.

My clausing lathe has old L00 spindle headstock and its been obsolete for quite some time. Its a PITA to get stuff for and it came with a worn out crossed screw. Clausing wanted twice what i paid for the whole lathe with all tooling for just that part. I had to make one... well I pretend to be a machinist occasionally, so i had to do it. Now if has .003 backlash.

 

I am a Tool & Moldmaker, have been for nearly 40 years (3rd Generation), got my first lathe when I was 13. Here are my recommendations on things to look for and things to pass on or not be concerned with and a few recommendations on specific machines.

The size of a lathe in the USA is measured by the diameter (swing) of what will fit and turn on the lathe and the length that you can get between centers. So a 12 x 30 means you can swing a 12" diameter by 30" in length. The 3rd measurement would be the spindle bore, the largest sized diameter you can pass thru the headstock or spindle bore. The larger the lathe the larger the part but at a certain point it becomes hard to make small parts on a big machine so be realistic on the size you look at. I would look for a 9" to 13" swing on the lathe and something like 20" - 36" between centers. I currently have 2 lathes, both 9" swings one with 19" and the other with 30" between centers.
Now with that out of the way, make sure you get some tooling with whatever lathe you buy. The machine is cheap compared to tooling if its used. Try to get at least a 3 jaw chuck, possibly a 4 jaw chuck with it. You will need a toolpost of some kind, a dovetail style is far superior to the old style lantern toolpost. A drill chuck for the tailstock and a live center for the tailstock also. With these tools you can do probably 80-85% of most lathe work. On the machine itself you would prefer a quick change gearbox for feeds and threading versus a box of change gears. Both work fine but the gearbox is moving a lever not swapping gears on the headstock to get the thread pitch right or the feed rate set up for the job at hand. You will also need a threading dial for cutting threads on your machine.
Now for machines, older machines, American made or European models are the best. Look for wear in the spindle bearings, wear on the machine ways, the surfaces that the compound ride down the bed and across the bead on. They should be clean and dent free for the most part and should move smoothly. The spindle should turn freely and smoothly with little endplay. You can generally buy older belt drive lathes (cheaper) or more modern or upscale gearhead lathes. Either is good and both have their downsides. Backlash up to around .020" - 030" is acceptable and can in a most cases be adjusted out or worked around. All machines will have backlash even brand new ones will have .003" -.010" from the factory. If you want a new machine Grizzly machine is probably your best bet. Older machines are good if you know what to look for and aren't afraid of a little work to bring them back.

These extras would be nice:
Faceplate for mounting odd pieces to.
Driveplate and drive dogs for turning between centers.
Steady rest for turning longer parts.
Follow rest for turning longer parts.
Box of tool bits for turning.


Good machines for a beginner would be:

South bend 9", lite 10", Heavy 10 or 13" machines in any bed length 4' or longer (good lathes, easily repaired and lots of spare parts floating around) these machines do not use timken or roller bearings in the spindle but auto style clamshell bearings from bronze and are all belt drive.

Sheldon lathe in 9", 10", or 12" swing (great little lathe) not many known problems

Clausing in similar sizes as above (good lathe) Compound bushings wear, lead screw wear.

Atlas machines are not bad but are generally light weight hobby machines with crappy gears and flat bed ways

Colchester (English built) overall good, expensive to repair

Le Blond (great machine) can be expensive to repair, especially servo shift

Logan lathe, comparable to the South Bend lathes in most all ways including repair costs

Monarch 10EE (finest lathe ever made) Expensive to repair but rarely break other then electronics.

If you have specific questions about lathes let me know.

 

Thank you for taking the time and sharing the info! This gives me some direction.
Thank you!
blalp

 

I have an old belt drive lathe made by Logan. No gearbox but does have lead screw. Belts are expensive, parts are expensive, and I still haven’t found a decent 3 jaw chuck as this one has a threaded spindle and is an odd size and thread. It has a 4 jaw chuck which is a pita. Start with a 3 jaw chuck if nothing else. I use the heck out of mine for small parts and polishing parts like shafts and shift rails. I’ve even used it to make teflon shifter bushings for a Toyota 5 speed.
I spent $100 on mine. I’m looking to upgrade to one with a gearbox which is much nicer and has better parts and accessory availability.
Like was said above, the more tooling it comes with the better as that is expensive. Also real old lathes tend to need more loving and maintenance. Mine has a bazillion oiling cups and points and it does sling a little oil once they are all freshly filled. Get something newer that is easier to maintain. Maybe find out what your buddy has and post up here for more advice.
One other thing, get a used copy of The Machinist’s Handbook. Invaluable information. Old manufacturing textbooks from trade schools can be invaluable like Machine Tool Practices and Technology of Machine Tools are very helpful and older editions can be had cheap on EBay and Amazon. I have both these and have found them very helpful.

 

Unless you need to burn a lot of time and money on a new hobby that can hurt a lot...
It's generally more efficient to pay someone a few times a year.
I could have a south bend for $500. I have a machinist father inlaw and some formal education but it's not worth my time.

 

Your point is valid. I would like to learn this skill set, and be able to make my on things at will. However, it does appear to be a bit expensive. Perhaps the better starting point would be to find a local machinist who is willing and enjoys sharing their trade. After some hands on time, decide if this is something to continue to invest in.

 

Haha Yup, you’re that guy! I would love to find a deal like yours!

Here are the “best” local Craigslist adds currently.

Just found this one... Thoughts on it?
South Bend 10L lathe - tools - by owner - sale

South Bend 9" metal lathe - tools - by owner - sale

Antique Walker-Turner Metal Lathe - antiques - by owner -...

Antique Metal Lathe - tools - by owner - sale

 

If that South Bend 10L was near me it would already be in my garage. The 9" looks nice but not enough tooling and don't see change gears for it. The last 2 are simply to old for me to bother with.

 

The fact that it comes with a "Guide to renovating the South Bend lathe" isn’t scary? If $450 gets it in the back of the truck, what would I realistically be looking at to get it to a point where I could do something with it?

 

I got a big old "gap bed" South Bend cheap, with a lot of tooling. Always wanted to be able to "make stuff."

Done a few things, but now I realize it is a whole career to learn of skills and knowledge - more than I have any real time or need for.

 

That is an under drive lathe, you would have to build or find some kind of table to mount it all up on. It could be tube frame bench with a wooden top if need be. Then add the under drive unit and mount the motor and wire it up.

Things I see missing:
Drum switch
Thread dial
Flat belt and V belt both missing
3 jaw chuck
Drill chuck for tailstock
Live center for tailstock
Tool bits & toolpost

With the above mentioned list, so long as the spindle and everything turns cleanly you would have a functioning lathe that you could do most anything that fits on the machine.

I made this drive shaft, splines and all on my South Bend 9" lathe about 10 years ago. this was taken before the other yoke was welded on. This went on a Kubota garden tractor.

 

That's kind of the problem, right there.

 

Pics of grand-dad's lathe would be a big help here, we don't have any idea of what it might be so can't offer any help on price or utility.

I have what I'm sure is a minority view: buy a cheap lathe that runs. I'd rather have some funky old antique than a newer import on it's aesthetic merit alone.
My first lather work was on a Unimat and turning a flange on a lug-nut was a big job for it, but it was educational. Then a 9" Logan seemed like a real lathe and I did get some real work out of that machine, I was fairly happy with it... until I went to work someplace with a 10EE. I used that lathe perhaps twice before I put my Logan up for sale, the Monarch was such an epiphany I knew I could never go back. That might have been a mistake since doing without a lathe until I bought my first 10EE was annoying at times, but it did help force the issue. So I can't use a crappy little lathe anymore it's true, but I value my time with them since I appreciate a nice lathe more than I would have otherwise.
I think you can get something useful out of almost any lathe, enough to figure out if you enjoy the act of making round parts at least.
After all, if you wanted something that just worked and had creature comforts, you wouldn't be here on a forum for old Jeeps!

 

A Monarch 10EE.. What a marvel, what beauty...

My first lathe was an Atlas 6" or whatever and it came with no motor and was free. It was a great thing to learn the very tiniest of basics. I could make bushings and really light work with super loose tolerances. This machine was worth nothing and as such I gave it away after I cobbled together a variable speed out of a treadmill.

My second lathe was a Shaublin 109. It was a second operation lathe and it couldn't really make parts, just refine ones that were already made. I got it out of a junk pile with all the collets and what not. Seems its a bit of an expensive niche machine and I sold it for 4 times what i paid and that guy got a bargain.

My present lathe is a 12" Clausing variable speed that's about 40" between centers. Its from about 1962 and doesn't look like a box and has some character to the design. It actually works quite well for me and I have a set of 5 c collets that make life a bit easier since my Buck 3 jaw scrolling chuck is worn out. Getting parts for this lathe is not easy, has a L00 headstock and that means i have to machine an adapter to work with a new expensive or chinese chuck.

As a package deal I got the lathe AND the bridgeport clone with a full set of R8 collets, 2 vises, a pile of endmills and all sorts of stuff for 1700. So 2 full sized semi ready to go machines.. They are both 3 phase, so I wired up a converter out of a static phase converter for starting and a 7.5 hp 3 phase motor. To do again I would buy a AC drive and be done with it. The programmable soft start and dynamic braking would easily outweigh the cost.

I have learned a bit about how to make these machines work for me. I have been improving them and my skills to the point where I'm confident i can make stuff with them and they have paid for themselves 10 times over at least. I use them both ALL the time.

a Monarch 10EE is in a class by itself. The speed control electronics are super old and require a lot to keep working or to repair.. But a 10 EE. what a machine.

 

Not quite all by itself, I'm told the Rivett 1020 is equal to (but different than) the 10EE. I wouldn't know. The Monarch isn't all things to all people, it's too big for some work, too small for other work, but for it's size... yes, oh yes.
One of my deep and lingering regrets is that I hesitated for a few hours when a 30" 10EE ELSR came up for sale not too far from me for under $10K.

The 100EEs have gotten easier to own lately: someone finally came up with a solid-state thyratron tube replacement and there is also a good solid-state total drive replacement that some folks have done, it reminds me of the Saganaw- steering box swap for the Jeep. Known, but still a lot of work.
My first 10ee electronics died a horrible death when the FF relay, which is made from 80% unobtanium, exploded. I was going to to the Parker 514C SSD retrofit on that machine when a ELSR machine came up for sale not too far away. It had electronic issues (of course) but between the two machines I got it going and recently lucked into a pile of tubes including some used thyratrons.
If you are willing to tolerate the very-annoying gear-change on the thread-cutting box on the old round-dial motor-generator machines, the electronics in those are very Jeep-like, very mechanical and also easily fixable. It's the WIAD machines that are both the most common and also the hardest to fix.