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Fino's 58 Wagon

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Nov 7, 2021
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    This is my plan for the CJ when I install the T18. I don't see why it won't work, just need enough extra length to compensate for the longer 4 speed.
     
    FinoCJ likes this.
  2. Nov 7, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 WRPD855 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Could you make a sleeve out of copper plumbing bits at the hardware store? I'ld give it a go as it is since there are two bushings holding the position of the shaft.... (I'm pretty sure that's all I did for my 4.3l but it's been 8 years)
    Another idea is to hold the gear on a bolt it can spin on while knocking the teeth off with an angle grinder.
     
  3. Nov 7, 2021
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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  4. Nov 7, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    The 57 283 that was in the wagon when I got it had an earlier, smaller 265 style distributor in it with the oiling tube. I think it was used because of the small size of the cap and short height - it was a better fit up against the firewall. It was the first piece of that engine that I sold - someone from the HAMB grabbed it. Guess they are a bit rare and expensive today - at least I knew that ahead of time from some price research so I got decent bit of money for it. from RA:
    More Information for CARDONE 301847CI
     
  5. Nov 7, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Well, the engine is sitting on the engine mounts...still have to get the back end/crossmember mounted up, but its encouraging. We'll see how much of a PITA getting the back end in place will be.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Nov 7, 2021
    bigjohn

    bigjohn Member

    Kelso Wa
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    908
    James that’s awesome to see the combo in the Willys! I’m glad you stuck with it. It’s a pain now but it’ll be well worth it when it’s back in the road and you finally get to fully enjoy the thing you worked so hard on.
     
    FinoCJ likes this.
  7. Nov 9, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    I couldn't locally source the right size/pitch threaded rod (5/16 fine thread) and associated union/connector nut - so I had to order a couple pieces from McM-C - shipping cost me more than the parts! Still waiting on the pieces - was supposed to arrive today, but now notified it will be tomorrow. I'll let you know how it works....
     
    colojeepguy likes this.
  8. Nov 9, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    So, what would you do....I am finishing up fuel lines, and got the hard line from pump to carb done. Previously, I had used a short bit of rubber hose from the end of the hard line to the pump inlet (I have the same set-up on the cj5), but was wondering if running hard line would be better or worse. Its carb so low fuel line pressure, and its only a maybe 4-6 inches of hose, but I kind of like have a short section of flexible (non-work hardening) line going between the frame rail mount and the engine block....I've always run the cj this way, but that was more because I couldn't flare connections, but now that I can, wondering if I should.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Nov 9, 2021
    Play Dead

    Play Dead New Member

    Oceano, CA
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    I would run a rubber “nipple” right after pump or right before carb. I like having a little wiggle in the fuel line. But I don’t like how it looks. You can get a stainless braided hose that would do the same and be a little cleaner looking.
     
  10. Nov 9, 2021
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    You need a section of flexible hose between the frame and pump (assuming an engine mounted pump) to allow for vibration.
     
    Steamboat Willys, Jw60 and FinoCJ like this.
  11. Nov 9, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    the pump is mounted on the engine same the carb, so less concerned about differential vibration there....I was thinking rubber section between the frame mounted hardline and engine mounted pump....
    pretty much was I was thinking...its worked on the cj for years
     
  12. Nov 10, 2021
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2021 Sponsor

    York, PA
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    This is gonna be one cool wagon. Liking this a lot. Keep at it.
     
    FinoCJ likes this.
  13. Nov 10, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    The sbc350/sm465/D18 combo is in...cross-member mounting went pretty well. Starting to work on finalizing some of the accessories, lines hoses etc....
    [​IMG]

    Figuring out belts...on the alternator belt, I don't know if I like this routing with the belt going around the crank and then up to the alternator and water pump....I could run the alt only from the wp (the wp would be driven by the ps belt)
    [​IMG]

    And the behemoth 465 protruding up through the floorboard....the random GM truck shifter that came with it is functional enough for now. Its a bit close to the right leg but it will work for now - sometime later I can work on bending it more to the center. There is just enough room to get my foot to the gas pedal with the modified brake pedal....floorboard tunnel cover work is much further down the line, although I may have to expand the D18 shifter pin access/removal hole upwards. The D18 is in the same fore-aft and left-right position, but 1/2" higher than it was in stock configuration.
    [​IMG]

    So, even though I did a bunch of test fitting, this is my first attempt at something like this, and finding some stuff I missed planning for etc. So current thoughts - I wish the entire drivetrain was pushed toward the passenger side just an inch or so from where it is now. Currently, the engine is shifted 1-1.5 inches towards the driver side - this gave a bit more clearance from the front passenger differential and driveshaft, but it also complicates things around the through the floor pedals and clutch fork. The mistake I am recognizing I made is I might have pushed things a bit too far driver side, as the huge sm465 is easy to get pushed too far into the driver floorboard affecting access to the pedals (which I figured out a bit ago), as well as the end of the clutch fork can interfere with the lower end of the brake pedal (this I am just recognizing and really, really thinking (hoping) its going to clear, but its going to be TIGHT!), and at some point, the exhaust will have to find a way through and under the area as well. If the engine were shifted an inch or to the right from where it currently sits (essentially putting it right down the middle), there would be a bit more room in and around and under the driver side floorboard, and I don't think the front driveshaft would be that big of an issue as the D18 would also get pushed to the right. The front diff to oil pan, as well as driveshaft to starter would be concerns, but I think it would be fine, and the extra little bit of space on the drive side would be helpful.

    I smashed up the thumb on my dominant hand today, so we'll see what kind of tedious stuff I can work through tomorrow, but hoping to clean-up the area under the dash with various cable and wiring stuff. Clutch cable work as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2021
  14. Nov 11, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    There have been 2 expected things that I never really figured out ahead of time: the clutch activation/linkage and the battery location.
    I 'think' I got the clutch sorted with a cable set-up similar to the late v6 cj5 long cables....I had to make a little angle bracket to anchor the pedal end of the sleeve:
    [​IMG]

    The bracket mounts to the inside of the frame rail (on the cj5 its outside the frame rail), and I am using an OEM bracket that mounts to the D18, although it would originally been on a large case D18, so I had to use some spacers and 'finagle' it a little bit on the small case D18:
    [​IMG]

    At the clutch fork end, I had to add a bit of threaded rod to lengthen it a few inches, and used cj5 style adjuster nut to connect into the fork...I also had previously drilled out the fork to fit the adjuster nut. The angle of this pic makes the cable look poorly aligned, but its really pretty decent as you an see in the previous picture.
    [​IMG]

    So, still need to finalize this, paint the bracket, add jam nuts, add return springs....the pedal feels very smooth and easy, but I may still need to shorten a bit more. I'd like to have someone work the pedal while I can be under there watching, but everything looks like it will clear, but it is tight. Something about how the pedal feels is worrying me, but its hard to explain. I guess I'd like to feel a bit more definitive change in resistance when the T/O bearing pushes the diaphragm fingers.
     
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  15. Nov 11, 2021
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash The pride of Cucamonga 2022 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    :(Hate that feeling :(
    I suppose you can have Jen push you around while you work the clutch and see how it bites.
     
  16. Nov 12, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    The clutch fork is quite a bit longer than the dauntless clutch fork and will require more cable travel. The cable will have to attach higher up the pedal than a CJ to compensate for that. I'm assuming the fork and cable location on the pedal are as they were when you got the wagon, so it should work.
     
  17. Nov 12, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    The previous clutch system was a cable around a pulley to the fork....so basically, it was the same ratio of pedal to outside end of fork movement (I am re-using the same cable clevis mount on the pedal). The main thing that changed is the outer end of the fork is a bit longer than the previous set-up, but I actually thought I wanted that as to reduce the amount of movement on the TO end - basically, it previously seemed the like all the clutch engagement/disengagement happened in a very short range of movement of the pedal, and lengthening the lever arm end of the fork just a bit would accomplish that - maybe I went too much. Or maybe with new cable, cleaned up pedal pivot (and associated reduced friction), no return springs, and slightly longer arm, it just feels surprisingly soft.

    With no return springs attached anywhere, the pedal 'returns' on its own, which I attribute to the clutch diaphragm fingers (lightly) pushing it back in place....actually, what I am beginning to think I should be worried about is that the outer end of the fork is seemingly 'pushed' forward up against the bellhousing and the TO bearing is not able to move rearward enough to be clear of the diaphragm fingers....In other words, even with the pedal out, the clutch disk may never be fully engaged if the TO bearing cannot move rearward enough....I was hoping to avoid all these issues as I am using all originally mated parts with sbc, sm465 and matching large hole bellhousing, and standard aftermarket 11" clutch parts (including the bearings), but maybe the fork is wrong as I bought it separate from the clutch package...

    Basically, with all the clutch linkage off, I think I should have a bit of 'free-play' in the clutch fork that I can feel or move by hand?

    EDIT - nevermind the most of this....with Jen working the pedal I was able to figure out the cable length adjustment. The fork has NO interference with the bellhousing which is good, and I found just a bit of free play in the fork when the pedal is fully released. Much easier to do with someone working the pedal....fwiw, when I was doing this yesterday, I was too focused on the pedal position and not on the fork position
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2021
  18. Nov 12, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    You definitely need some free play at the clutch fork. Be it a different or modified clutch arm, different length throw out bearing, or an adjustable pivot ball.
     
    FinoCJ likes this.
  19. Nov 12, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Made a battery tray (well just tacked into shape)....The space is pretty tight so I didn't trust I could fit any generic purchased tray so a custom job it is...I believe this the OEM location for the battery tray anyway as there is some extra support on the firewall which I was happy to use - although I had to push things a bit more towards the driver side to clear the v8, and am using a small size 24 battery. The upper driver side mount uses what I think is an original mount hole with additional bracing support behind it. Good backing fender washers should provide enough support for the other stuff. Will now have to find a new place to mount the brake reservoirs - probably on the inside of the fender behind the fenderwell where there is a bracing channel with nice vertical surface.
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Nov 13, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Nothing too exciting today...just some painting of brackets and things, and installed the 4 new shocks:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    These are not quite as large a diameter as most of the standard 'off-road' aftermarket shocks like Rancho etc - These are more like 2" diameter instead of 2.5", and it gives nice clearance from the front axle. On the cj, the wider body aftermarket shocks won't fit on the front unless I flip then upside down or I think a lot of you move the shock mount. The steering stops also beat the heck out them as well - but on the wider track wagon, that shouldn't be an issue. The cheap Gabriel Ultra shocks I put on the front of the cj at some point (older but probably better RCs on the rear) worked fine for 5 years, but are pretty much toast at this point - possibly due more to the physical abuse to the the shock body from axle contact than anything else, but will probably upgrade to higher quality shock for the cj soon. But for the wagon, if these match the Gabriel, that will be fine (and cheaper). Although these are cheap Monroe shocks - they are made in the USA - says so on both the box and the shock body...
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
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