1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Coolant loss after rebuild

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by JhnBrackett, Mar 9, 2011.

  1. Mar 9, 2011
    JhnBrackett

    JhnBrackett Race Engimuneer

    Lakewood, CO
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    Messages:
    120
    We're a bit flabber gasted at the problem right now, looking for some additional troubleshooting angles.

    On my 71 CJ5 with <4k miles on a rebuilt Buick 225....
    Carb bolt dropped out into Pistons 2/4/6 causing extreme damage to the pistons & slight dings in a few valve seats.

    Phase 1:
    Disassembled block, replaced all 6 pistons & rings. Honed cylinders, no bad gouging.
    Had passenger side head valve job & surfacing performed.
    Cleaned all mating surfaces & used all new gaskets. Only used loctite for bolt thread sealant. Torqued heads to 80 ft-lb (spec is 65-85) which was the upper end of the 3/8" ratchet's spectrum
    Started vehicle up. Tons of coolant in the oil after <15 minutes of running. Cylinder #6 was pristine (aka... steam cleaned) and part of cylinder #4 (rear 1/4) was clean. Ash/soot build up on rest of piston & #2.
    Checked for surface flatness with straight edge, nothing seemed out of wack.

    Diagnosis 1:
    Used a 1/2" (0-150 ft lb) torque wrench at 85 ft lb to see if heads were torqued appropriately. They were probably closer to 70 ft lb than 80, so I assumed that might have been the issue. Just to be safe, I uninstalled the head and recleaned all mating surfaces. Then torqued down to 85 again.

    Phase 2:
    Ran engine for 60 minutes and same problem as before. Still same coolant issue in cylinders 4 & 6. Double checked torque and they are at 85 ft lb.
    Pressure tested cooling system and has a slow leak. Could hear it in the passenger side, but can't figure out exactly where.
    Performed cylinder leakdown test with cooling system tester attached. I was curious if pressuring each individual cylinder up to 90 psi would pressurize the coolant system. It did not.

    Diagnosis 2:
    Didn't notice any cracks in the cylinder head but possible, so dissembling tomorrow.
    Do I need to do some additional thread sealant? No bubbling around the threads while the coolant system was pressurized.
    Any other guesses? It didn't leak until after it was surfaced and the area they machined was not the entire surface, just the outer third.
     
  2. Mar 9, 2011
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    8,360
    Sounds like a crack in the head.
     
  3. Mar 9, 2011
    flyingtim

    flyingtim Member

    Branford, CT
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    69
    Did the shop magnaflux the head when you had it resurfaced? I agree with Patrick, sounds like a cracked head, I'm assuming that you've eyeballed the gasket and made sure its not leaking. I'm curious though , why did they only machine the outer portion of the head, and not the whole thing? Have you taken a straight edge to it to make sure that its been machined evenly and that it's not warped or twisted and that the surface is perfectly straight?
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  4. Mar 9, 2011
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Messages:
    4,275
    Had a friend with a SB Chevy with a similar issue, he accidentally dropped the air cleaner nut down the carb of the running engine. Why he opened the carb I have no idea, but the nut went into the #3 cylinder with a very ugly noise.

    End result was a hairline crack in the cylinder wall, the block was toast. The piston had a suspiciously hex-shaped indent in the top o it, apparently it cocked the piston enough to split the cylinder wall.

    I would pull the head and have it magnafluxed as mentioned. Hopefully a cracked head that is all that happened.
     
  5. Mar 9, 2011
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,471
    Who did you have do the engine work? I use Lee's down here in the Springs and know thier quality if you need to take it somewhere. I too think you have a cracked head.

    Let me know if you need anything else.
     
  6. Mar 9, 2011
    mdmeltdown

    mdmeltdown Member

    Bossier City,...
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    792
    WOW, and I thought I had problems getting mine running after a complete rebuild
     
  7. Mar 9, 2011
    JAlves

    JAlves Sponsor

    Yuba City, CA
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    85
    My first thought is a cracked head but your comment on the surfacing keeps bugging me. I would go to another shop at this point and have it fully checked. The first shop may be fine but probably should have recommended magnafluxing after seeing the type of damage and they may have improperly set the head and angle milled it (pictures?). A second opinion will help you decide what to do next.
     
  8. Mar 10, 2011
    JhnBrackett

    JhnBrackett Race Engimuneer

    Lakewood, CO
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    Messages:
    120
    w3srl FOR THE WIN... cracked wall in cylinder #6. After the honing, it only looked like there was a slight scratch in the cylinder. After getting the cylinder in BDC position, I could see the crack had propagated to 4" long and had rust around it. Oddly, there is a guy 1 exit down with a 67 Commando he's parting out. Getting the entire engine on Saturday for $100. Assuming his cylinders all measure within spec, I'll just swap all my components on since just had a rebuild 4k miles ago. Since I'll be swapping out the crankshafts. Do I need to also get oil seals? I'll replace bearings with excess wear of course. Any other small things to watch out for?

    Thanks everyone for the help with diagnostics & guesses. Hopefully this will help someone else in the future:

    If you've got white smoke & a lot of coolant in your oil (white, frothy, latte mixture), then probably a cracked cylinder wall.... dammit
     
  9. Mar 10, 2011
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,471
    Well - I guess I don't need to make a trip to Monument on Saturday as I planned. Sounds like you already have the motor locked up. I was going to look at it for the accessories on it more than the motor for my niece :)

    Oh - if it doesn't work for you, let me know. I have a bare block here at the house as well if you need it.
     
New Posts