Even fire V6, to t90 3spd

Hey y'all! It's been a looooong time and I'll spare you the sad excuses.

I have a line on an even fire 231 which is currently coupled to an AMC th400.
My question/concern is ... Will it fit to my t90/d18 set up using relatively easy to obtain/oe parts?
I've been watching more for an older odd fire just to stay more within the vintage of the rest of my driveline.
With the AMC trans does that mean I'll be able to find a flywheel, bellhousing, starter and such that will fit to my t90? My budget is small (I have kids in college) so fancy high dollar stuff like adapters etc are out of the question. My hope is that I can change to the long input shaft, get a bellhousing, flywheel, clutch etc and get more horse power in my little 44mb which is currently sitting in the driveway under covers because the ol' f-head is pretty well shot.

Thanks in advance for your input, Art

 

I am assuming that the EF engine has the same block as a OF. On my jeep the T90 has a really long input shaft. The bell housing for the V6 has a GM pattern on it, and there is a 3" adapter that bolts between the trans and the bellhousing. There is also a bellhousing with a pattern that fits a T14, it will not do you any good as the T90 will not bolt up to it.

Funny part of all of this is have all the parts sitting in the corner of the shop. I really would rather not part with them, but I could be convinced.... I also have a spare 225.

I would shy away from the even fire V6. The crank is not as strong. I like the sound of the odd fire anyway. -Hill

 

Thanks guys for the input.
As nice a relaxing cruise to Colorado sounds, I bet the parts are available locally.
One of the big things for me that turns me onto the 225 is the big heavy inertia weight (flywheel) they run.
Will the heavy flywheel work on the EF 231?
Ps. I like the odd fire sound too.

 

My 231 is running the odd fire flywheel, when I bought it from partsmike he had it rebalanced for the newer motor. Works like a charm. I probably would have went with an oddfire had one been available, but I got the evenfire (actually an entire wrecked oldsmobile delta 88) for $300. It was driven by the 80 year old mom of the local machine shop owner, who had rebuilt the motor about 3 months before and completely balanced and blueprinted it. Plus he thru in an aluminum intake and headers he had laying around the shop. One of those deals you dream about. I had to get an HEI from a 79, mine is an 84 and the dist was computer controlled. The dist, a holley carb, some headers (the others were car headers), a flexalite plastic fan blade (required for clearance), adapt a late model CJ gas pedal and cable, weld in motor mounts, add chain clutch controller and I was in business.

Obviously the evenfire cranks are weaker, but like Sparky said, when was the last time you heard of one break? Didn't the Grand National make like 520 hp or some such? Perhaps those cranks were forged? Not sure. In my opinion it is a non-issue, the Buick v6 is a good motor throughout its history.

 

Cool, so it can be run, just needs to be balanced... Wonder what that cost, prolly not too bad...
Hmm.?

 

I would have to look at my receipt.... it is at home....bought a clutch controller at the same time I believe, and don't know if he even specified a cost for the machine work, just a cost for the flywheel with a handshake that the balancing would be done. I would imagine any shop could do it. Now if they would know WHAT to do....

 

Yes, the crank needs to be balanced with the flywheel --no biggie for most engine shops. Without balancing, I would suspect short lived oil seals or other harmonic side effects.

These are very reputable cranks so don't worry about strength. The turbos and 4.1's run a rolled fillet crank for strength but you don't need it.

 

Naw I ain't worried about the crank either, I've seen a few 2.8s break cranks but haven't heard of it on a 3.8.
This could work out well, now I just gotta keep on the potential seller and gather up the other parts.
Wonder what I'll be doing this winter in between hunts? Ha ha.

 

Keep an eye on Ebay, and the For Sale adds here. I've picked up a bellhousing for $10 or $15, b/h-trans adapter for around $20 and the input shaft and brg retainer for $5 each.

 

The hardest part I have had to find was a bellhousing. I had to call all over the place, Finally found a good used one in Oklahoma for 75.00. All the other parts came together pretty easily. There was a few places in Calif. but htey wanted over 200.00 for a used bellhousing, and one of them had been busted and welded back together. The jeep salvage in Oklahoma city has several old dauntless jeep out there. Try to look them up and if you cant find any info I will send it to you if needed. Good luck

 

Remember to take the harmonic in when you balance the flywheel to the crank. BOP bellhousing fits right up. If your T90 fit before it still should with the 231. I used 225 pilot bearing which goes nicely into 231 crank. As John said, the only difference between Normally Aspirated 231 and turbo 231 is rolled fillets (whatever that is). Several turbo guys on the regal board run NA cranks. Short oddfire waterpump bolts right up to later model front cover. Should be an easy swap AM

 

Contact Nickmil on this board for a belhousing, I bought mine from him about 1 1/2 years ago for $30, cost $10 to ship it from Oregon to Alabama. He can pretty much find anything or at least he has been able to so far!!

 

AM,
My flywheel was not done locally, so I do not know if they had a harmonic. She runs smooth as silk though. Not sure if that is really required? Perhaps they had one on hand at the shop where it was done?

Rolled fillets refer to the "profile" of the crank where the rod journal meets the rest of the metal of the crank itself. Instead of a 90 degree "L" shape, the metal is machined to have a radiused shape (picture a circle divided into 4 equal "pies") the profile would look like one of the "pies". Besides the obvious more metal at the joint, the radius prevents the formation of cracks at the sharp "L". Much stronger, can also be used at the main journals. Sometimes this requires specific rods and/or rod bearings IIRC, anyone know if the turbo rods are different?

I have a problem with fan clearance on my swapped in 231. Everything works, but very tight. I can bolt up the shorter 225 water pump?? Does anyone know if this will cause clearance problems with the HEI? The fan I use now has a deep profile, and it seems like if I shortened the water pump I would just end up with the fan hitting the HEI dist. Guess if I was running a points type (smaller) I'd be OK. Would you have to use the 225 pulley with the 225 pump??

Very interesting thread.

 

Doublebit, living Auburn, Ca I assume you have this info, but just in case. There's a big Jeep wrecking yard just east of Sacramento, J&W Auto Wreckers, 8626 Antelope No. Rd, (916) 723 3950.
www.jwjeep.com

 

Short water pump ala 1967 bolts right up to 84/85 front cover. Thanks for the explanation of the rolled fillets as I have never understood that detail previously. If you use the 231 crank pulley then you will probably need to buy a Permacool ( I have part no. if needed) or similar low profile fan. You will probably have to scrounge a 225 fan pulley and make a small spacer. I used the 231 crank pulley. Its tight but has not hit on anything so far. I believe the main difference in turbo motor was fulley skirted and stronger pistons. Compression 3.8 turbo 8.5 to 1while 225 is 10.5 to 1. I am not sure of compression NA 3.8 AM