Back to the drawing board

After you get this all figured out, I wouldn't run any STP, Lucas or any other additive until that engine is really broken-in.

 

Yes

never use it

pulling the head today - sounds like I should just plan to pull the motor and go right through it for good measure. Since it was a rebuild, everything should come apart real easy this time with not big surprises

 

I had the 409 in my 62 chevy break a couple of rings, and it was driven hard for a while like thet. I mean 7,500 rpm every gear. Didn't really smoke, plugs were just a tad dark. Probably 1500 miles or so. When I tore it down, I found broken rings and no cylinder damage! Just a hone and back together. If I got lucky, you can too! I have the worst luck!

 

I didn't think it would be rings since I still have good compression, especially on all 4 cly, but then all 4 are getting oil on the plugs which made me think valve seals and or guides, I did not change the valve guides.

I always go with the majority rule and most think it is the rings. will be pulling the motor and tearing it down, that shall be a separate thread with lotsa pics

 

is it smoking more or less now than when you first fired it up?

 

First as in first after rebuild? start up - I had no smoke then

Now when I start her up, little constant smoke. There is more smoke the longer she runs, LOTS more with engine RPMs - other than the smoke - she is running awsome :?

 

Have you checked the fuel pump? If the diaphram is bad, it will mix oil with the gas. Pull the dip stick and see if it smells like gas. If the fuel pump has the vacume pump on the bottom, it can also pull oil into the manifold and cause it to smoke. I just had to deal with this problem myself.

 

To my recolection, the fuel pump does not have any vacume to it, straght mechanical - and brand new to boot, will go sniff the old oil

 

Just a heads up you have compression rings and oil rings. If the oil rings are damaged and the compression rings aren't it can still suck oil from the crank case but give you good compression readings.... Nickmil

 

Engine fully disassembled, all rings are intact. Lotsa oil in cylinders upon removal of head. me thinkist it has to have been bad seals or guides or both.

pics to follow -

need to re-mic the block and see about having it bored if necessary

 

Check to see that the oil control rings are not on upside down. The righ should have a small dot or a t and this goes up.

I have sen them put in upside down and will pump a lot of oil.

Andrew

 

Yes, dot goes up. If on wrong it scrapes and pumps oil into cylinder instead of out!

 

Since you have it down this far---check the T slot in the piston to ensure it has been assembled correctly. If turned wrong on the rod---it will flood the top end with oil. I don't have my manual in front of me---but I belive the T slot is Opposite to the oil hole in the rod.

 

will check - thanks for the tip. Life has me slammed busy at the moment - working on pics.

It's hard because now that it is apart, I want to figure everything out and forget to post pics to show what i have found.

What I have discovered so far:

being unsure of how long it ran with only 2 qts oil (it wasn't long, mabe 5min), The main bearings are SHOT - possibly the crank as it has small "RIDGES" I can feel with my finger. will have the machine shop look at this, they were not there the first go round.

The rings I used were not broken, I removed the oil ring from #3 the wettest piston on disassembly and checked this

There were no marks on the rings, dots or T's, the only thing that gave any hint of directionallity was on the corregated center piece, at the seam, one side was red, the other side was yellow. Yellow was to the left.

Finally, I noticed the exhaust valves, when fully open, I can manually wiggle it left to right a heavy 16th of an inch, not quite 1/8 in. I would think that is not good. If memory searves correctly, I only had the little rubber seals for the intake valves(not for the exhaust) I cant check for lash till I pull the springs on the intakes valves.

Ok - with that all said, what I keep telling myself is that this motor was running solid and strong, till it ran low on oil. Only once, did I notice a puff of blue smoke, after sitting at a traffic light for a min or two, but it was not blowing smoke. Once it started to blow smoke, it rapidly got progressivly worse. Checking the odometer, I had a good running engine for close to 400 miles with no issues, ran low on oil and I have Puff the magic Dragon

 

Part of the symptoms do not fit, but you might want to make sure you do not have a broken diaphram in the fuel pump that is sending the oil out that direction.

 

Would that not send the oil through the gas or gas in the oil? - oil had no gas oder to it, either the old, or the newly replaced.

Pics, Head removed


hmmm, Mission control, we have a problem


Cylinders 1 & 2


Clyinders 3 & 4


Going to go snap a couple shots of the bearings and crank, but at this point, I have a theory that the valve guides should have been replaced all around and that the source of oil is the intake seals have failed and are letting oil drain freely into the cylinders. I believe the cause of the early bearing failure was simply lack of oil, if I am able to save the crank, then I will basicly start with all new parts again and rebuilt the engine once again, if not, I have a spare Fhead that will get broken down and looked at for rebuilding.

Either way, it looks like I will be down till I can get some definate answers as to what went on here.

 

welp we talked at length with a friend who has spent his life rebuilding motors and he confirmed my diagnosis of low oil killing the motor.

Cause - rear main in backwards, lack of attention to details while enjoying myself @ Sporties, anyhow, the deed is done, the motor didn't overheat, it just needs a rebuild.

Crank is toast, needs to be ground. followed by new valve guides all around and a nice new rering kit.

Pulled the valves outta the head n block durring tonights Girl Scout meeting (I escaped the house and went to do Jeep)- Block, head and crank will be going to the machine shop durring my breif lunch break.

before I send the crank out, I plan to open up the spare and see if it is any better shape, one can hope, no garuntees, but we'll see.

 

I agree - but I want the machine shop to make that decision - he is the one that wants to see both cranks, guy is real decent, helps to have friends