Back to the drawing board

Back to the drawing board - disassembly update

ok so the "puff of Blue Smoke" has become a fog, oil pressure at low rpms drops to zero, reving the engine will get the oil pressure up, I am afraid this is not good. I got the 64 home, will wash the mud off and bring her back to the shop. Something is definatly wrong, blown head gasket, valve seal, broken ring, failed oil pump...all of the above. Will only find out but tearing her apart. 134 F-head rebuild take 2 comming soon R)

will post back with details as I find them

 

X2

 

Better the rebuild than a hand grenade.

Hard to fix an engine when the guts go out a hole in the side.

 

well can't remember who I lent the compresion tester too - so there goes another fifty - time to tinker, mud is gone and I ended up paintin the front pourch - nuf house work - it's jeep time

 

welp tinkered a bit, pulled the plugs, they are all dark and #3 is slightly damp, all 4 cly have 125psi. There were a few leaks after the rebuild, an oil drip here and there, no puddles. A quick check of the oil level showes me down a quart. Colant leveal is unchanged an no signs of oil in the coolant or colant in the oil.

Need to keep looking

other than the smoking, my concerns are #1 why did I loose oil presure?, #2 where did a quart of oil go?

 

EXCELLENT !!!

#1 Bad mech gauge; elec sender; crud in line to gauge; what weight of oil and what ambient temp? ...

#2 Crankcase pressure /bad pcv; too light of an oil; the motor just likes being a quart low (I've had a couple ... any oil usage history?)

 

mechnical gauge was working great - it showed when everything warmed up, that the pressure would drop at low idel. when it first started smokin, if I reved her, the oil pressure would go up with the engine speed.

will put another quart in her and a new set of plugs, better yet, I'll just change the oil n filter.

oil I used was 10w30 if I can remember back that far, will sift through the reciepts to double check, it is a complet overhaul with less than 500 miles

now to figue out why she is smokin

 

Here's my take and please just take it with a grain of salt but with the sincerity that is meant: if it's above 25°F where you are, I'd be running straight 30W, as I'd presume the manual states (they probably say 32°F). Additionally, I run 6-8 oz of Lucas (STP or other is fine too). I won't run 10W-anything in any old machine, weather permitting. Clean and gap the plugs; new plugs are probably not necessary. If the plugs are wet from oil, I think the oil is too thin. If they are wet from gas ... that's another thread.
Best of luck with it but I sure am glad the compression is good ... now it's just little stuff

 

Learn somethn every day - I never gave it a thought - will have to look around to find straight 30 weight - hopefully that will help, funny how it waited to start smokin thou.

 

Yehhh, everything I get into anymore is "funny" Just thought of something else ... from my background, at 500 mi on a new motor, you should be changing the oil anyway. Also, because my old Carter YF carb is running pretty rich, I've been changing the oil at 750 miles ... just because it was "thin" and black on the dipstick ... and, I think I was burning some oil just before the latest oil change this weekend ... but, I'm doing some performance improvements/tests and have been on the throttle pretty hard on some pretty hard highway grades. Best of luck to you

 

when I posted less than 500 miles - it is more like less than 200 miles - all was good till the smoke apeared unexpectedly, enigine seams to be runnin strong, but with the smoke and the oil pressure gauge showing low at idel, I wonder if I lost the oil pump, will need to change the oil and go from there

 

That's a very good point. ... especially if the old pump was not rebuilt/tolerences checked. At least you have simplier things to check rather than a new teardown

 

another though - I did check the oil pump and it was woking great, looked brand new, the entire inards of the motor did in fact the coating on the bearings were not even worn, but they got replaced along with new valve seals. I have the hose of the oil fill going to an oil-less air filter I rigged up, it could be possible it is sucking to hard and drawing oil through the carb, but again, the problem with the smoke only showed up after the loss of oil pressure.

 

ok changed the oil n filter, put 30 weight in, cleaned the plugs with th media blaster then brushed um out with brake cleaner n air. made sure all was good.

Fired her up, oil pressure was a consistant 40lbs - good

Smoke was still there - BAD

ran her for a few minutes, smoke was still there.

Disconnected the PVC valve and the tube going from the oil fill tube to the air filter, S M O K E W A S s T I L L t h e re COUGH HACK COUGH

shut her down, let the smoke clear and hoped the fire dept hadn't been called by a neighbor over the toxic cloud drifting through Glens Falls. cheked the oil and coolant to see if they had gotten overly friendly - nope they are stayin where they belong.

Plulled the plugs - all 4 are wet with oil hmmm - re did the compression test - with the new oil, I now read 127 lbs across all 4 - dead on (gained 2 lbs)

VALVE SEALS???

oil musta been lower than 1qt, nothing knocking, I musta toasted the seals, glad I shut her off when I did and didn't run her dry.

Will find out how much oil was left when I transfer it from the catch basin to a bottle.

Time to go find valve seals and another head gasket, I would assume it would be the intake letting the oil in since the exhaust valves are on the side of the block.

Any advice or thoughts of an ill fated diagnosis??

 

Intake valve guide, rings upside down/oil ring not installed.
Other than that, no clue.

 

Not sayin I didn't make a mistake, but I was super careful on the rebuild - did it myself. Oil rings are there, rings upside down - not likely, but I wouldn't say not imposible, I've done dumber stuff, but 99% sure they are correctly installed. Valve seals takin a crap, if they were oil starved then I could see it, might just toss in a new set of guides, but won't know till I pull the head what I have to replace. It is possible the guides should have been replaced durring rebuild #1 and I just machined the valves and seats. Guides looked ok - could be my mistake, I did not detect any lash.

 

What did you set your piston ring end gap at. Too tight of a ring gap would cause a ring to break after heating up. Kinda sounds like what you have. It would also cause excessive blow by. Pull the head and push out the pistons. You still have not found the cause of the low oil pressure problem. I idle with 25 pounds of oil pressure hot with 10w30 and a quart of Lucas additive. I do not know when my engine was rebuilt or if it was ever rebuilt. 1 quart low on oil would not cause oil pressure to be low on gauge. I think you may have multiple problems.

 

Believe it or not, to answer that, I will have to go back through my box a notes - I know I gapped them, and wrote it down, might have even snapped a shot for a write up. The plan is to pull the head and see what I see, anything obviouse, I will post up. Also, tomorrow I will measure the oil I drained from the engine, I think I found a major source of oil loss. Looks like 2 bolts ratteld out of the timing gear cover below the fuel pump and the cover is loose - hence the nice unwanted puddle of oil that i didn't have before this weekends jeep trip that showed up this evening after the oil change. I suspect I was lower than a quart of oil.

If, after I pull the head, i do not find anything major, it's really no biggie to pull the engine and check the piston rings, my thoughts are, with all 4 plugs wet with oil, it would have to be broken rings on all 4 cly (not likely - or is it?). If broken rings, then wouldn't I be reading low compression?

Bad valves seals, caused by bad guides would get all plugs wet I would think. I will know more if my suspicion of low oil pessure was caused by low oil period, after measuring it.

Keep posting your thoughts, and correct any errant ones i might have, I am always learning here - thanks all