304 Engine Installation

I will try to keep this short & sweet.
I picked up a rolling '72 renegade with a good body, frame and axles (D30 / D44) with no engine & trans. I found a good running 304 v8, mated to a T-18 (6.32 low) and D20 T-case to put in it. I got all of the motor mounts, radiator, and even the blown axles ( D30 & AMC 20).
So I install the motor/trans set up into the '72 frame. The frame has factory holes for the v8 mounts. Pass. side can only fit in one position. Driver side mount actually can be installed in two locations. I install in the forward location (same as engine donor vehicle).
At this point I see two things - first the engine is not centered in frame - it sits about 1 1/2" favoring driver side and 2nd, the T-case and rear axle pinion are about 1 1/2" out of alignment side to side.
I then moved the driver motor mount rearward about an inch using the rear most frame mounting holes ( 3 out of 4). Now the rear yokes are in line but the motor sits a little crooked in the engine well. I have discovered that the pinion locations of the D44 & AMC20 are different with the centered D44 favoring the pass. side by about 1 1/2" hence my alignment problem on the first set up.
I am wondering what would be the best setup using the centered D44. Is a 1 1/2" to 2" side to side yoke alignment with about 6" of vertical drop on a 20" drive shaft anything to worry about? This keeps the engine mostly inline with frame rails although favoring the driver side. Or - Should I use the rear driver mounting holes to eliminate the side to side yoke misalignment at the cost of a slightly crooked engine under the hood? Only a trained eye and a tape measure would probably spot the engine being crooked - it's small.

Any thoughts?
TIA

 

No thoughts anyone?

 

If you want, I'll try and get some measurements for you when I get the chance - ie, when time, daylight and good weather converge.

I have a bunch of pictures of my stock 304 '75 online here http://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/~reese/ResizedJeepIPics/ but a quick look didn't show any with the perspective that you need.

Firstly, a Renegade should have V8 mounts from the factory. Did you try to move them or? Even if they were removed, you should be able to tell where they were located. Second, I question whether the mounts from a M20 equipped Jeep will be the same as your '72 Renegade. The later frame is different, so the mounts are likely to be different too. Finally, a Renegade before '77 never came with a T-18, so you're going to have to wing it wrt the trans mount. Having the center line of the output housing slightly offset from the rear axle won't matter. The total angle (ie measured in the plane of maximum angle) is what matters. That includes both vertical and horizontal offset.

Better?

 

I have a similar situation with my '74. Take a look and see if this thread helps you out. Good resources on this site!

http://www.earlycj5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46738

 

Thanks for the pic Maverick. Your mounts look more or less equal in size. Is that correct? My mounts are different. My driver side mount is smaller than the pass. side mount. My passenger mount looks like your mounts.
Tim, my ren. frame and the frame the motor came out looked identical ( both have parallel frame rails front to rear) except that my ren. frame is structurally sound. Both frames have the same mounting holes for the motor mounts and my set up was based on the motor position ( forward) in the donor frame. I am leaning toward mounting the motor square in the engine well and dropping the trans cross member an 1" or so to help the drive shaft angle. Who knows, my donor jeep my have been piced together like I am doing with mine.
I will try to post up a pic or two tomorrow.

Curt

 

The V8 mounts on my 72 are the same size, and my engine is centered and level. I would buy new mounts for your year.

 

Oh. The pics in this link are of my Jeep. http://www.earlycj5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46738 I don't remember taking those, but they show the mounts pretty well. Looks to me like they are basically the same size and angle.

 

Here is a pic of my motor mounts. Talk about adjusting and making things fit, this is all custom who knows what the PO was doing? Or if he knew what he was doing. Anyway hope it helps.

 

Thanks for the pics. I took some pics of my mounts. The motor mounts in both of your jeeps do appear to be the same size and most likely you have a D44 rear. My mounts set the motor favoring the driver side. I am figuring that this is to line up the AMC 20 axle. Mystery solved ( for me at least ). I am going to work with what I got try and make the rear drive line angles minimal as possible. I will post some pics when its all bolted up.

Thanks for your help,
Curt

 

so, this is a really good topic. i've had my 73 renegade with 304, t5, d300 for around 2 years now. i know that the trans and tcase are not stock and am not sure what exactly is. some while ago, i was cruising around underneath on my creeper and noticed that my driveline is not exactly straight. my rear driveshaft drops down,obviously, but also to the right about an inch or more to meat the d44. (i've not taken any measurements). also, i have headers that drop down behind the fenders, but the driver side header protrudes out just a little more than the passenger side does (and has a little more dings and dents in it to show for it), it also gets a little closer to the tire at full lock than the other side.

seeing this, i had always thought that my entire drivetrain, engine to tcase, was misaligned, like my motor mounts were off a little and bringing the whole drivetrain about 1.5 inches to the left by the end of the tcase. i had been planning on fixing this problem, but still haven't, and have never heard of this issue with anyone else before this thread.

is this a common problem? does the renegade/304 just mount like this? or do he and i just share a common problem?

 

by the way greencj5, i like that nice clean drivetrain. mine will look like that soon, at least for a bit...
looks nice and clean.

 

This was the advice given by JeepTherapy "I just walked out and looked at the 304 setup in my 74. The drivers side uses 4 bolts in the forward most 4 holes. The passanger side uses 4 bolts in the two front most holes and the two rear most holes."

This explains at least on my Jeep why the engine sat out of wack and headers were off too!

 

Mine has the 360, same block as 304, and I had the driver side header hanging low too. I thought it was because the headers were cheap. I ended up taking the headers off and went with stock manifolds-no leaks. I have not checked the driveline to see if it is straight, because the t-case is out of it at the moment. maybe someone else with headers and the v8 can check.

 

Here is mine. Also a '72 CJ5, I have owned for 16 years all stock w/ a dana 44 4.27... The 304 favors the drivers side as the mount on that side is 1.5" shorter than the passenger. It is also just off of center behind the TC 1/2" if I remember right.

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I feel better knowing there knowing there are rigs running around with the drive train offset like mine is going to be. When did the AMC20 start showing up in the rear of CJ's(Tim)? I suspect that is when these mounts started being used. I now am thinking of keeping an eye out for the correct "Dana" mounts and some day changing them out. In the meantime, the build proceeds.

Curt

 

1976 model year.

 

Stock v8 frame horns, 1975. Hope they help. 72 and 75 should be the same.

 

Re: 304 Engine Installation/crooked driveline

so, apparently all these drivelines are shifted to the driver side of the vehicle a bit. (explains the left side droop on my jeep's saggy springs). on my upcoming frame swap, i was planning on straightening up the driveline, but if this is just an inherent issue, is it something that i should fix? or is it something that i should just leave hanging off to the left side?

any ideas? does anyone know of a person that has in fact fixed this problem (i do say a problem since i don't feel that an entire drivetrain should be off center, rather it should be dead on center), or does anyone plan to fix this issue?

interesting topic...

 

so, has anybody thought of centering up this drivetrain issue before? or is this something that i should just leave be and let the left side be heavier and headers stick out a bit extra?