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I have the death wobble! Help!!

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by 1964_cj5, Mar 7, 2008.

  1. Mar 7, 2008
    1964_cj5

    1964_cj5 I'd rather be Jeepin'

    Aiken, South...
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    85
    I recently rebuilt the draglink on my ross setup, as that is where the majority of my steering play was coming from. I got it all back together last night, went out to take a test drive, and as soon as I got up to about 40mph the front end felt like it was about to come out from under my Jeep! It scared the ever living hell out of me. So I slammed on the brakes and checked my pants, and then I limped it back home. So my question is, would a draglink reassembled incorrectly cause this, or is it something else? I'm pretty sure I did it right, as it seemed like there was only one way for the springs and seats to go back in there without falling out, and my steering is much tighter now. But now I have the wobble and don't know why. One thing I noticed a couple of days ago is my right tire has alot more positive camber than my left one. What would cause this? The wobble seems to be coming from that right side. Also my tie rods seem like they might have some play in them, but I'm not sure. If you jack up the front end and grip the tie rods with both hands, you can twist them frontwards and backwards. Is this normal? They have been like this for awhile and I never had the wobble. Only now since I rebuilt the draglink. What do you guys think it could be? I'm really concerned about that right tire being cambered out like it is, but it's just funny that I get the wobble right after repairing the draglink. :?
     
  2. Mar 8, 2008
    1964_cj5

    1964_cj5 I'd rather be Jeepin'

    Aiken, South...
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    85
    Here are a few pics of my front end. Does anything look out of the ordinary? The only thing I can tell is that right tire definitely has more positive camber than the left. :?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Mar 8, 2008
    Jmairz

    Jmairz Improvise-Adapt-Overcome

    The Big Mitten (...
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
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    24
    Have you checked bearings and king pins yet?
     
  4. Mar 8, 2008
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Sep 20, 2002
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    That's what I was thinking too.
     
  5. Mar 8, 2008
    duke54

    duke54 Member

    JACKMAN MAINE
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    Apr 15, 2003
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    319
    Then put a $50.00 steering stabilizer on her you will love that add on.:)
     
  6. Mar 8, 2008
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    The front to back twist on tie rods is normal. On drag link, adjust front plug (cross slot) until tight + - 20 ft lb then back out 1/4 turn and cotter pin it. On rear plug you screw it in quite tight then back out one full turn and cotter pin. That is what manual sez and that way I did mine w/no pblms.
     
  7. Mar 8, 2008
    1964_cj5

    1964_cj5 I'd rather be Jeepin'

    Aiken, South...
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
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    85
    Will new kingpin and wheel bearings correct that positive camber on the right side? I am going to end up replacing everything in the front end. It's just funny that this happened right after I repaired the drag link. I'm still not convinced I have it together right. I put it back on and made sure the ball end on the pitman arm and bellcrank were pushed back into their notch. Then I put the springs in according to the manual. I didn't have much trouble with the steering gear side, but the axle side was a b*tch to get it in there, and I still don't have it in far enough for the cotter pin to go through, much less backing it out a quarter turn. Why is that front end so tight? I want to make sure that is right before I move on to something else. But yeah, I plan on replacing the wheel and kingpin bearings, replacing the tie rod ends and sockets, and rebuilding the bellcrank. I want to make sure this steering is as good as it can get before I move on to the brake MC replacement. Thanks for everyone's help. :beer:
     
  8. Mar 8, 2008
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Sep 20, 2002
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    9,221
    Unless I'm mistaken I thought the camber wasn't adjustable on these axles???

    Or is my termiology incorrect and the camber isn't the angle of the tire in relation to the Y-axis of the Jeep as you look at it from ahead/behind?
     
  9. Mar 8, 2008
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    Sep 22, 2002
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    I've "heard" that there are/were full contact tapered shims you could put behind the spindle to adjust camber, but never seen one.....
     
  10. Mar 8, 2008
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
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    Nov 6, 2002
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    'Splain that to me Patrick, I'm trying to visualize what you are saying..
     
  11. Mar 8, 2008
    Dan66cj5

    Dan66cj5 Member

    Oregon
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2003
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    235
    I have a couple ideas you could try.. It looks like the right front tire is worn out more than the left. To make sure the problem is not the tires/wheels. You could rotate the tires.. put the rear 2 tires up front. From the pics.. they look like they have more even tread wear. Also, from the pics, it looks like the full face of the top of the tire is not making contact with the ground. Try checking air pressure and lower air pressure to maybe 25 pounds. Or 30psi if you have over that. Too much air could cause the tire to round out on top.

    Also the camber degree is not user adjustable, but the toe in/toe out is adjustable. You could check that yourself with a tape measure easily to see if you are not very far off. It is easily adjustable too, and I think adjusting your toe angle at home is good enough - and that you dont need a shop to do it for you.
     
  12. Mar 8, 2008
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    A slightly tapered, full contact shim the same diameter as the spindle mounting surface. "tilts" the spindle up or down to change camber. Never actually seen one, but, but used them all the time (these were plastic) on the rear of a front wheel drive car, to adjust camber and/or toe...
     
  13. Mar 8, 2008
    redspot

    redspot New Member

    Harrison , Maine
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    Dec 24, 2006
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    Rotate and balance . It worked on my 65 .
     
  14. Mar 8, 2008
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    Dan66cj5 I believe you might have that front plug cross-threaded. Turn the steering wheel to push the drag link up tight against the bellcrank and then insert your pieces. If you cant start the plug with fingers and screw it in some, you probably have some pieces in wrong place.
     
  15. Mar 9, 2008
    CJ-515438

    CJ-515438 Banned

    West Palm Beach...
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    80
    Nice Jeep
    :drool:
     
  16. Mar 9, 2008
    russo

    russo Hope is not a method

    Norris, Tennessee
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    498
    I put my draglink together twice before I got it right.

    Also, simple but loose lug nuts or elongated holes in the wheel can cause the same problem. One sorta follows the other. Is it possible that timing is coincidental and not related to steering repairs?
     
  17. Mar 9, 2008
    Txjake

    Txjake I wrenched with Sparky

    Oklahoma City OK
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    Feb 3, 2006
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    544
    have you checked your bushings on the frame, where the shackle bolt attaches and your spring bushings? worn out bushings there will prevent you from ever getting a constant setting on your front end and introduce extreme osilation in your front end.
     
  18. Mar 9, 2008
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
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    Sep 22, 2002
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    Those bald tires won't help either....
     
  19. Mar 9, 2008
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2006
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    2,793
    Or a bent wheel?

    My son was following me the other day and told me the passenger side rear was bent.
    I Can't feel it in the frame or seat, but I bet I would if it was on the front instead of the rear.
    R):coffee:
     
  20. Mar 9, 2008
    1964_cj5

    1964_cj5 I'd rather be Jeepin'

    Aiken, South...
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    85
    I know the draglink endcap isn't cross-threaded because I was able to put it in and get it started a good bit by hand. I have just come to the conclusion that it is just tight and that is the way it is. I did figure out what the wobble was, and Dan66CJ5 was right. I swapped the front and rear tires and gingerly drove around for a bit, and finally got up the nerve to get up to speed, and the wobble never happened. I could feel a slight wobble from the rear though, so I guess those worn out tires up front just decided to introduce the dreaded wobble after I got my steering tightened up. I'm still going to end up revamping the whole front end, from tierod ends, to bellcrank rebuild, to new wheel and kingpin bearings, because I'm sure that it needs it. But at least my suicide shimmy is no more! I was so scared to get it up to speed again. R) I never want to experience that shake again. Also two new tires are in order for the rear. On a side note, my steering is pretty dang tight now! I adjusted my Ross box a little bit tighter and now the only slight play I can see in the system is a very slight wobble in the bellcrank. So that draglink rebuild did it and now I only have about 3/4" play in my steering wheel. I also adjusted my front brakes because they were dragging like crazy. Dunno if that could have caused the wobble or not, but they are right now. I tell you what, I am certainly relieved that is over with. Now it's time to replace my MC and move on to some new seals in various places to try and stop some of the oil leaks. Thanks for all the advice guys. And thanks to CJ-515438 for the compliment. I have to give credit to my dad for getting it looking nice. Now it's my turn to actually fix all the little problems it has. :beer:
     
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