67 4 cyl manual steering upgrade

Hello all,
I tried to ask a question in the steering box thread but didn't really get traction.
I'll say this first. I realize I'm going to have to build something but I'd like to keep it simple. Is there a way to replace the Ross set up with a better manual set up using some sort of manual steering? I know I can fab up a bracket and what would be needed for a power steering pump on the engine I have but my question specifically is regarding running a manual steering.
Fab wise and money wise, if it's the same to just make my power steering I have no problem going that route but I'd like to keep it manual just not the wanky Ross steering.

 

If you decide to go with Saginaw take a look at this thread. There are tons of good pictures and lots of good information here. This thread says power steering but much of it will apply to manual Saginaw steering. Just no power steering pump and hoses to contend with.

Saginaw power steering (pics) please add yours!! | Page 10 | EarlyCJ5.com

Take a look at this and if you can ask more specific questions that would be helpful for us to help you.

 

Thanks Nick.
I took a quick look at it. My question was more to deal with which kind of steering box to use but I guess any that would work can be used without the power pump for the fluid pressure. I wanted to get away from the "Y" setup of the Ross and to a stronger "modern" steering linkage.
I'll get more in depth with my research when I can sit and make a shopping list.

 

Hi -

You can go power or manual. Many go with the manual Saginaw gear when they have the F134 engine. There are lots of threads in the regular forum about this - site:earlycj5.com saginaw manual steering conversion - Google Search

Issues with power steering and the F134 - there's no factory installation of the pump, so you'll have to fabricate something. The pump is a parasitic load, and is a larger percentage of the engine output for a small engine.

There are also the Ford steering gears from Herm - Manual CJ Conversion Kits | Herm The Overdrive Guy - apparently he only sells a kit for the manual gear when used with a F134. Also covered a lot in old posts in the forum.

Look at this thread in this forum - Ross, Saginaw or Herms steering boxes | EarlyCJ5.com - active right now.

 

If the rest of your Ross system is in good working order you can go to a one piece tie rod and then a drag link from the bellcrank to the tie rod. That makes for more positive steering. If the rest of your Ross steering system is worn it can be rebuilt but I certainly understand if you were trying to get away from all the moving parts. That's why I go Saginaw on all mine that are not restoration projects.

 

As much as I'd like a "restoration" it's more of a restomod for me. I got the jeep for a great deal with all the original running gear and everything. For ease of driving and durability I wanted to upgrade the steering, the stock linkage doesn't look like it will hold up to either a 31 or a 33" tire, which are options I'm looking at, but with the 33 I'll be limiting if not breaking my D27 front axle.
The only other mod I'm looking to do is the front discs, I'll probably do both modifications at the same time, of course I'll try to fully document when I do and put it up here.
I'm expecting 50-50 street trail use but I'm not going to try anything too crazy, just don't want to drop a lot of money on the JK while it's under warranty and being paid for.

I looked through the 'post your saginaw' thread. Looks like I'm looking for a range of steering boxes, not sure if I want to fab up a PS pump bracket and as tim mentioned, that's a draw on the engine that I really don't want on the little 134, it's already doing a lot of work as is.

 

The best box for a forward mount (outside of the cross member) would be a Saginaw 525 6.25-1 bump to bump Manual box. They used them in a whole bunch of 60's and 70's chevys as well others. If you can't find a good used one. You can buy them NEW from Speedway Motors on line. (the oldest speed shop in the USA)

I have one mounted in my Project on a 57 CJ5 frame. I have not gotten the steering finished yet so no reviews.

 

My '47 is set-up with the one piece tie rod with a shorter drag link and a rejuvenated Ross box with a TiteSteer steering tensioner. This steering has done well even before I reversed a spring-over axle job. If your tires are over 7.5" wide, the steering does get tough. I think the Ross steering gets a bad rap because it is usually ill-maintained and worn out.

 

I would guess - the Ross boxes are worn out because their design makes them more susceptible to wear. I would expect that the Saginaw manual gear will be less worn out initially, both because it is newer and because it does not wear as quickly. I also posit that the rate of wear is proportional to the difficulty of steering, so the lower friction and easier movement of the Saginaw gear both makes the steering easier, and reduces wear on the steering gear.

Regardless of whether the gear is a problem, it seems to me that a system that has an intermediate bearing (the bellcrank) between the steering gear and the tie rods, must have more friction than a steering gear that acts directly on the tie rods. Extra effort comes from more bearings/pivots and from the offset (vector) losses in each system.

Also, it's my understanding that the newer variable-ratio power Saginaw gears are significantly more durable than the older high-ratio gears from big GM cars. The Wagoneer guys like the 3-bolt S10/Blazer 4x4 gear for installation in their vehicles. These gears are both new and durable, and can typically be picked from the junkyard, installed and used without any tightening or refurbishing. Of course, it's a 3-bolt gear, so the mount is not as strong as the 4-bolt gears that Jeep used. But there has been no difficulty whith these breaking when installed in Wagoneers...

 

Thanks Tim.
Also I think that if you structurally reinforce the mount for the box it should take all the mechanical stress out of the steering box itself and put that on the frame. I do plan on both using a mounting plate and a cross frame tie in when I do the steering swap.
Also if all the major manufacturers changed to the modern style of steering and got away from the "ross Y" setup and noone has gone back to that style since then, there has to be a reason. The linearity of the steering is one big reason I can see with the links being so close to each other.

 

For manual steering, I would recommend finding a two hole steering knuckle for the right side. This will significantly reduce steering effort.