My V6 Fuel Injection Dreams

First off.......Hello guys, been a while since I've posted on here.

Simply....my 1966 CJ-5 has a 1979-81 Buick 231 with a 2-Barrel "Dualjet" Carb, which runs rather well (especially on angles!)

I also have a 1946 CJ-2A with a....well......****ty carb. It does run (kinda). It was converted to a 225 (I think its a Dauntless.....might be a 231?)

ALSO: I have a Offenhauser 4-Barrel intake for the 225/231 (I assume it fits both)

I have 2 options......I really wish the TBI works.

I can run TBI on my 66, and switch the dualjet over to the flattie.....however if TBI is "easy" to put on......then I'll run both.

My idea is to run the 4 barrel intake with a TBI setup........

I am 21 years old, but by no means a fuel injection person. What should I be looking for in a setup (junkyard) and what vehicle should I be pulling parts off of.

YES i used the search function.....all I learned is I hate FWD Buick intakes

 

I believe you cannot EFI the odd-fire engines with a 100% junkyard system. About the closest to 100% junkyard is a Megasquirt computer with the sensors and throttle body from the junkyard. The Megasquirt will accommodate the uneven firing intervals of the OF 225/231. Most folks that do the Megasquirt buy the kit and assemble it themselves, but you can buy the board already stuffed. The premium to buy the board assembled is about $150 ($278 v. $444). Check out DIY Auto Tune http://www.diyautotune.com/ for Megasquirt kits and boards.

 

I should probably clarify my intentions here.

my cj5 has an EVEN fire pattern, and already has HEI ignition and such.

my cj2a has the oddfire dauntless, but my initial fuel injection intentions fall on the evenfire 231

i was asking what would be the best bang for the buck (the almighty $$ wins everytime) when going to the junkyard. I know the Chevy 305 is a popular choice to steal the injection system off of, and I think for the sake of simplicity using that (versus finding a 4.3 TBI system) would be easier. I am just unclear about how I can go with injecting the engine.

 

Pretty sure the GM TBI is your best choice if you want a system that's self-contained. Ford and Chrysler both used components that will work, but I think the GM stuff is easiest to just yank-and-use. The 4.3L, 5.0L and 5.7L all use the same throttle body and computer, with different sized injectors and programming. If you want the GM TBI stuff, it will likely be cheaper to find a 4.3L to scavenge from. You may be able to buy the whole car (Astro Van, S-10, whatever) and part it out ...

The 4.3L computer will work without any reprogramming, but to get the best performance and economy, you'll need to burn a custom chip. The Megasquirt has the advantage here, in that it is programmable by plugging in to a laptop or other PC computer.

If you want really really cheap, check out Will Marsh's article on Binder Planet. He EFI'd his TravelAll for aout $300, but used the Megasquirt. http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/showwiki.php?title=Affordable+DIY+Fuel+Injection+Part+1

The Fuel Injection forum on Binder Planet is run by Bill USN-1, who pushes the modified GM stuff. His FAQ will tell you a lot about which parts to get and how to proceed. http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=75

As always, if you want to save money, you'll have to do your homework. Being comfortable with digital and analog electronics helps, along with some computer skills. I suggest you read everything you can find about this topic.

 

to be honest the more I look into the Megasquirt system the more a seem to like it.

My offy intake can accept a nice TBI Unit off the right year 4.3 and the rest can be sourced from whatever.....

anyone else had any experience with Megasquirt

 

From my experience with Megasquirt II, if you are willing to invest a great deal of time into learning EFI and the Megasquirt EFI system it can be a rewarding experience. The learning curve is steep. With the aid of TunerStudio tuning it is getting easier but again be prepair to spend alot of time reading. In the link on binderplanet that timgr referred to the system installed was Megasquirt I. It is usable with a GM TBI but will not control the IAC stepper valve that GM uses. If you go with Megasquirt use the MS II system. A route that may be a little simpler is if you can finder a TB off of a GM v6 and get the entire wiring harness with the ODB I ECU. You will need help with a few of the tuning issues. Lastly, you have the options like Warlock used such as Powerjection III which I beleave he is more than happy with. Your costs for either ODB I or MS II should be very similar and will be more than those noted in the binderplanet install. The systems such as the Powerjection III are a great deal more. Warlock can advise you on that as I beleive he has a write up on his install. Good luck.

 

I just finished converting my 67 oddfire 225 ot EFI. I used the TB, Ecm and sensors from a 1990 S truck, mounted the TB to a 4bl Offy intake with an adaptor plate. There is a lot of info online about using the GM TBI, its a common swap. For the 225 or the 231 you will want to use the TB and ECM from a 4.3L the injectors are smaller than the injectors for the V8's and the prom in the ECM is calibrated for a V6. The ECM will control fuel and spark, you don't have to use spark control the system will work just fine with fuel control only. The 225, 231 will run on the stock calibrations for the 4.3L but you can get the ECM programed to better suit your app. It's not a hard job but you need to do your homework first, did the swap for about $450. Hope this helps.

 

True, but Marsh avoided the issue by using a Ford throttle body. The Ford CFI TB has no idle air control unlike GM - instead it uses an electric choke setup similar to what you'd find on a carburetor. So more primitive than GM... and it was only offered a few years, so not as plentiful. Almost everybody goes with the GM throttle bodies, and there's a lot of info about them on the 'net. But the Ford, Chrysler and even foreign throttle bodies will work as well... you will have to be a little intrepid, since there's so much less info on the 'net about these alternative sources. The Ford TB that Marsh uses matches the standard Ford 2V pattern, which can be adapted just as easily as the GM TB pattern.

If it were mine, I'd go out to the yards and see what I could find. If parts from a 4.3L are easy and cheap, then go that way.

 

Seconded.

I spoke to a local wheeler (who has a TPI-350 in his CJ-7) and he informed me that what HE would do, considering my current setup, was to find a 4.3 (the years which he told me escape me) and take the TBI and most of the sensors, harness, computer, blah blah blah out of it. Considering I already have HEI it would be easy to use computer controlled spark.

I can pull the parts, but finding a PRE-OBD-II (ended in?) donor is the problem.

 

I understand what you guys are saying; however, it impresses me as a little unrealistic. There is at least one complete description of installing the 4.3L TBI system complete here http://www.viciouscustoms.com/TBI/junkyardtbi.asp.htm - it's for a 258, but the process is exactly the same for any other even-fire engine of similar displacement. There is lots and lots of information on the internet, both about complete installations and about the popular donor vehicles. I suspect that the amount of information and its diffuse nature forms the main obstacle.

If this barrier were not present, there would be little or no market for the complete packaged systems. If you don't have the time or resources to do the research, then a packaged application - Holley, Howell, whatever - makes the most sense. You need to spend the time to learn about the processes and principles if you are going to roll your own. To me, this is easy and part of the fun - but maybe not for everybody.

<edit> Here's another write-up http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/junkyard-tbi-write-up-1066016/

 

need to compare the guts of the distributors. chevy evenfire vs buick oddfire and if the parts fit the advance curve in the computer is unlikely to be ideal, nailhead vs chevy, different compression. if you can run the 4.3 fuel only that would solve several issues but not all of them.
pre 94ish is obd 1 so look for 1st gen v6 astros and s10s

 

Yes, the OP wants to EFI an even fire motor. Chuck, I thought that even fuel-only requires an even (or averaged) tach signal. A crank wheel and sensor would work.

 

When I was looking for a donor I got lucky, there was a half dozen S trucks at the local pick your part. The stock ECM prom cal. for the 4.3 is a little rich for the 225 but it will run with the 4.3 cal., went out to the desert over easter weekend, four days it ran great. When I get a little more time I'll fine tune the ECM using TunerCat. Right now i'm not using spark controll just fuel, as far as spark control I am going to mount the ignition module externally from the HEI that way all that I need to do is fab a harness inside the HEI to take place of the module. For the spark signal I used the Tach signal at the HEI, I did have to use a tach filter. For the O2 sensor I used a AC Delco 4 wire heated O2 sensor, a must if your running headers or your O2 is to far down the exhaust system. All but the fuel pump (Walbro) inline are fatory gm, AC Delco parts.