Head pulled, what are we looking at here?? PHOTOS!

Hi all,

Pulled the head off safely this AM, thanks to this site!

So upon removal I found some things that were troubling to say the least, the head gasket looked to have one notch in the very center between the two inner cylinders, and I am not yet sure if the head is also warped... BUT looking at the block I found a few interesting things. Looking at the pix of the block, in the photos where you can see my fingers, I am pointing at oil in the holes for two of the head bolts, (trouble???) and at some very troubling rusty gunk that appears to have totally clogged one line and gummed up another pretty badly. Are these coolant lines? Guessing they are. Also there is evidence of coolant on the tops of at least two pistons.

Also including shots of the head with headgasket still attached for your reference.

So let's ask the experts, what do we see here? Thoughts? Concerns? Looks about normal? Looks really bad? Any advice welcome.

Here is the link to my photobucket account. The first shots are the ones to look at, head is first then block....

http://s557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/mwinks-jeep/

Thanks in advance for any thoughts, direction, encouragement etc!

 

Matt, the coolant passages look like somebody ran water in the engine for a while. Clean them out as best as you can. I'd do the oxalic acid flush once I put the engine back together. You may not need to flush it if you find that you have cracks (ie the shop will clean it before they repair the cracks).

There's a lot of dirt in the way of seeing anything. The combustion chambers look a little sooty, but that's likely due to the running history immediately before teardown. Did you have oil in the coolant prior to teardown? Or water in the oil? I would go ahead and get everything as clean as I could, and then look for cracks. As I recall, these engines tend to crack between the exhaust valve seats and the water passages? Something like that.

If I didn't find any smoking gun other than the gasket, I'd clean the head and block surfaces and put it together with a new gasket. Anything more drastic than that will need complete disassembly anyway, so you may as well be optimistic until proven otherwise.

 

I had coolant coming out of the exhaust,- literally dripping onto the ground! Tons of white smoke as well, insane amounts, and overheated it at least once. BUT No evidence of milkshaking in the oil, there was moisture on the dipstick above the oil line, thought that might just be due to condensation.
Dunno if the PO ever ran it with straight water, kinda doubt it but certainly possible. When you say look for cracks, do you mean in the head the block or both?
Will definitely clean him up and repost new shots of same areas.

Thanks Tim!

 

Both.

But somebody with more experience with these engines will be able to tell you better where to focus. I would get things as clean as I could, and use an intense light source and a magnifying glass to look over the surfaces. Mostly you want to get a good close look at anything suspicious. Typically cracks originate from a penetration in the block or head, so look for cracks starting at the exhaust seats, water passages or such.

Here's a few old threads to look at. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclien...w.,cf.osb&fp=9920b2d293cc72f&biw=1346&bih=880

 

Clean the deck of the block very carefully. I get the big stuff off and then use a dull razor blade and scrape the little bits off. My money is on a crack in the block, near cyls 2&3. Seen it before, and your symptoms are spot on for that scenario.

 

OK so newbie question. If that is the case, can a cracked block be repaired effectively?

 

Cracked blocks can be repaired, either through welding or pinning.

However, if cracked, it may not be economical to repair. Replacement may be the better approach if the engine is common, or maybe even not-rare.

 

That is insane! Neat invention! REALLY hope I don't need it!

 

hey matt
a good way to look for cracks is to get the suspect area super clean, then apply some baby oil in the area. wipe it clean then sprinkle baby powder over the spot. let it set for a minute then blow the excess powder away. if there is a crack the oil will migrate into the crack and the powder will adhere to the oil. it's a poor mans magnaflux or dye penetrant. cheers.

 

The dye penetrant kits aren't all that expensive, I think the last one I bought for the guys in the shop, the basic kit was like $30 from MSC, not a huge investment if you're concerned about cracks and don't have somebody with a magnaflux close.

 

between the 2 and 3 exhaust is the first place to crack on the block,
unfortunately i do see a dark line in the pic,
x2 on dye penetrate.

 

Yep I see it, is that a repairable spot or am I block shopping? Would that drill and tap system posted in this thread work there?

 

Certainly you still want to clean it up and take a good look at it.

If that's a crack, it might be repairable. I would not attempt it myself (ie in my garage). If repair were the only option, I'd take it to a good machine shop and have them fix it. I don't think you could stitch the metal (using pins, like in the video) into the exhaust seat and expect it to last. They might be able to stitch it, then install new valve seats. But it's probably going to be cheaper to find another block - the repair won't be cheap. And there's some risk with any repair like that.

I'd get some good pics of the area and take them to a few local shops.

Try the Willystech and CJ-3A boards as sources for another engine, if needed.

 

it is on the block between #2 and #3 exhaust seats, mirrored to the gasket damage pointed to on the head,
could you take some more pics of the #3 pushrod hole, the bottom of the #3 cyl wall towards the #4 side, i'm seeing the lines in pic 1291

 

That is a neat technique. Looks easy enough in that aluminum. Id be interested to know if they warranty that repair.

 

the block looks fine--


the head is suspect, but pull the head gasket off first. that seam there looks to be in the gasket


I overheated mine-- had a nice cracked block. The burned valve was a bonus.
Note the 3d crack, at the 6 O'clock position, running right into the valve seat area.


Oh, and the burned valve also left me this, on a almost new cam & tappets. :evil:

 

I posted one more pic on my photobucket site, shows the block crack brtween 2 and 3 pretty well in top right corner of picture.

Link is here:


http://s557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/mwinks-jeep/?action=view&current=DSC01300.jpg