Ramsey Dual Pto - Questions

Firstly, a huge thank you is do to the community, there isn't a better resource anywhere for all my dumb questions. With all the help here, my Jeep is currently hibernating away in the corner of the garage waiting for nicer weather; I'm going through all the piles I made in the garage during the rebuild.

I decided to tackle the Ramsey DP-102 PTO next, as I found it disassembled in one of the 'I'll get to it later' piles. In full disclosure, when I successfully removed the PTO from the transfer case the chain inside was already broken and heavily rusted. I'm not sure exactly where the original chain got off to. I do have all the other parts and the diagram from Herm on how they should all go back together.

The result:



And



I ended up ordering #50 chain, based on the sprockets it measured out correctly. The fit on the sprockets is good.

My question is around the slack in the chain. There appears to be quite a bit, enough to touch the case.



When resting in the orientation it would installed, the bottom chain seems to drag on the case.



I believe make it smaller would require removing 2 links, but I think doing so would make the chain far to small to install. I could possibly believe I've got 1 link too many, but I don't see how I would connect the master link.

Thoughts on sealing it, do I need to make a gasket or can it be sealed with RTV? I'm not sure if I install it without a gasket if the shaft will bind up.

 

It appears that the chain has been dragging previously. I'm not sure it's a big issue since whichever side the loading is on will be straight and I doubt most people put enough time on one to seriously wear the case. Dry fit the cover without the gasket. If it drags, you know you will need the gasket. RTV isn't going to contribute anything significant to the clearance.

 

There are half links available that have one roller and offset bars with pin to lengthen the master link.

 

How bad is it? Is "touching the case" going to do any harm?

Just looking from here, removing even a half link might be too much. Perhaps there is a little wear on the sprockets.

 

It's entirely possible that it was designed to run on the case. It will be entirely bathed in oil, so maybe its not destructive. When I cracked the transmission/transfer case/PTO originally it was a mess, water had gotten into it, so I'm not really sure how its supposed to look. I will have to spend some time searching around for the old chain, to confirm the link count.

I will also document the bearings/seals I pulled out of the PTO for the next guy.

The 4 ball bearings were all the same, I found one with a legible marking (6205). I ordered 4 6205-2rs and pulled all the rubber seals except for those bearing faces that are against a seal.

Front Shaft Seal was a Victor 60126, couldn't find anything that crossed with that part number. it was an ID .750 OD 1.250 thickness .380
I ordered a 470954 seal ID .750 OD 1.250 thickness .250

Rear Shaft Seal was a Victor 60536, it crossed to pat number 450185. I haven't received the seals yet, so those could still be incorrect.

 

Run it! Not enough slack for even a half link.

 

Another update - FYI

I measured the clearance on the PTO Cover for the rear shaft. It measured out approximately at 0.665



The stick out on the PTO was approximately 0.683



Trying to put the two halves together without a gasket would have likely created interference issues. I decided to use a thicker cork gasket, which should provide adequate clearance when assembled.

Liberal RTV use and the custom gasket appears to be the fix. No binding in the shaft, smoothly shifts in and of gear.

Once the seals arrive, I can install them and the flange on the rear shaft.

 

I would see if there is a way to get a couple thousands side play without a gasket. All chain-drive PTOs I’ve been into had very thin paper gaskets where the case halves bolted rigidly together. I would be afraid of having a compressible gasket supporting the outer case containing the bearings. This could allow the outer case to “walk” a bit, especially under load.
A valve cover or oil pan with a cork gasket doesn’t have to support any loads.
-Donny

 

This is perfect timing
Dealing with one also. thx op!

I may have some questions also

 

This

 

Once you have it all back together, I would like to get with you on your bearing and seal sources along with pricing. We are trying to put one back together ourselves and have ran into some problems sourcing some missing items and parts. Really appreciate your offer.

Scott

 

When I got the PTO apart, there had been water ingress into the transmission/transfer case/PTO. I don't think the PTO saw a lot of use or really hard use. All the shafts and internal components cleaned up nicely; the chain was a rusted mess as were the open ball bearings. The 4 ball bearings were all 6205s, I ordered 6205s-2RS (sealed bearings) as I was able to get 4 of them off ebay for like 28CAD. I removed the seals from all bearings aside from the side that would be next to the oil seals.

I believe the caged roller bearing (Part 25 in the diagram below) is the same as the one here I couldn't find a replacement for the large caged roller (DP-199) bearing. There is a grease fitting (648) and it looks like both the large and small caged roller bearing are greased, not oil bathed. They hadn't been effected by the water in the PTO and after cleaning them up, decided to re-use them.

I've installed the seals (470954 and 450185) and they both fit. They were ordered off Amazon for I think 14CAD and 10CAD.

I would expect that better deals on pricing should be available in the US.

I may crack the case again and see about ordering a selection of thrust washers (19) of different thickness and see how close I can get the fit.

 

To be clear, this thing gets oil from transmission correct?

 

From the image in post #13 above, I sure could use the shift lever assembly for the FC trucks. Anybody have one you're willing to part with?

 

Thanks for posting the part numbers. I've had one of these taken apart in a box for 8 or so years now, maybe I'll finally be able to get it together.

 

I thought mine was way too loose, and the chain and sprockets were badly worn, but after comparing several units, it was only the chain that was stretched a small amount. Something else to consider besides the idea that it needs to be closed up with both bearings, I believe it also tightens up under load. That explains why you can have a loose one, but not much marking on the inside of the case.