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Welding a cast aluminum bellhousing.....

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by william_cj3b, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. Sep 20, 2005
    william_cj3b

    william_cj3b 3BOB driver

    Milton, FL
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
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    I'm considering an engine swap that will require welding an aluminum bellhousing to an adapter plate. Will this be strong enough to support the drivetrain in a rough riding old jeep, or will my firewall become the rear engine support on a trail somewhere? I've welded plenty of aluminum stock, but never any cast aluminum.
     
  2. Sep 20, 2005
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
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    I just spoke to our chief welding engineer here. Shouldn't be a problem. We weld cast aluminum here all the time, as well as thin and thick aluminum plate (most tracked combat vehicles we build are aluminum)
    He said it's difficult to recommend which filler metal to use since the grades you'll be using are unknown. I asked if there was one best all-around grade to use when welding potentially dissimilar grades (as 309L is in stainless) He said he'll get back to me probably tomorrow on that.

    EDIT: I just spoke to one of our aluminum welders. He said the heat will make the casting brittle. He recommends welding a small section at a time, less than 1", move to an opposite corner, weld a small bead there, etc. allow welds to cool fully before attempting to add a connecting short bead.
     
  3. Sep 20, 2005
    william_cj3b

    william_cj3b 3BOB driver

    Milton, FL
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    Thanks a bunch!!
     
  4. Sep 20, 2005
    84cj7er

    84cj7er Thats not a pillow....!!!

    Lehighton pa
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    Jan 3, 2004
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    Where i work we weld alum. all day also....we have welded cast before and some got good and some got Ok but they were very dirty when welded...depends on the cast itself for that .We have done it with great success.
    Sam
     
  5. Sep 20, 2005
    CJ5_Wil

    CJ5_Wil JEEP-A-HOLIC

    Portland OR
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    Sep 11, 2005
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    CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN... I've done it, and had it turn out just very well. Just make sure that it is CLEAN... free of oil, dirt and oxidation. Make sure you use a stainless steel wirebrush!
     
  6. Sep 20, 2005
    Old Bill

    Old Bill Aggressively passive....

    Really Southern...
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    And don't use the "purple stuff", it will dissolve aluminum. Brake cleaner, acetone, maybe even run it through an old oven (not for food use) to bake out the crud.

    You might also ask about soldering or brazing it together. I just did some aluminum soldering last nite for the first time. IIRC, the specs were something like 35,000lbs tensile strength.
     
  7. Sep 21, 2005
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
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    Weld engineering recommends using 4130 filler metal, and confirmed using short beads to minimize localized heat, to prevent cracking in the cast material heat affected zone. As said, clean metal is very important, much more so in aluminum than steel! Good luck, keep us posted!!
     
  8. Sep 21, 2005
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    Lynn while I am by no means an expert on welding, 4130 is chrome moly steel, unless by chance there is a 4130 aluminum rod that I've never seen.
     
  9. Sep 21, 2005
    66cj5

    66cj5 Jeep with no name

    NorthWest Indiana
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    think it is 4041.
     
  10. Sep 21, 2005
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
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    I'm probably dyslexic and semi-deaf today :rofl:
    Good catch Mike, I'm sure I wrote down the wrong number. I'll double check...
     
  11. Sep 21, 2005
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
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    OK, they are guessing that the bellhousing is a 3000 series, and the plate maybe 6061... so their best guess is to use 4043.
    If you know the specific alloys involved, I can get a more definite recommendation...
    but this should be good for your intended purpose. Sorry for the earlier confusion :oops:
     
  12. Sep 21, 2005
    xtrm4xjp

    xtrm4xjp Member

    Kenosha, WI
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    Just my two here. 4043 is a good selection for filler rod. I would recommend preheating the material. about 350* for about an hour. This will help eliminate the cracking and as someone stated "bak out any contamination. I would also groove put a bevel on the edge of the bell housing to ensure a full weld. Tack it in an opposing manner and put a tack about every 3". Once your done with the welding I would put it back into the oven and gradually bring the heat down over a 2-3 hour period, This should pretty much eliminate any chance for cracking. I would also recommend using a little softer grade than 6061 for your base plate as the hardness of this material will probably be comprimised in the welding process. No sense in wasting money on expensive material :) . If you don't have an oven for cooling another trick is to berry it in sand so that the cooling process is slowed and kept even. Hope this helps, good luck and keep us posted.
     
  13. Sep 21, 2005
    Grandpa Jeep

    Grandpa Jeep Member

    Peyton, CO
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    Oct 24, 2003
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    My Bellhousing is welded, and it's holding up just fine.
     
  14. Sep 22, 2005
    william_cj3b

    william_cj3b 3BOB driver

    Milton, FL
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    Thanks all!!
     
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