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Warn M2 Hubs

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by mickeykelley, May 20, 2018.

  1. May 20, 2018
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

    Republic of Texas
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    I'm getting ready to tear into my 3 ring Warn hubs to clean them out, up, grease and make pretty again. The ones I have have been banged into over the years, so what do y'all suggest for cleaning up nicks and scratches? Second, the rings are painted black, but the brass knobs I've seen pics of have the recessed wording and finger grips painted black or red. Does anyone know what they originally were? The dot mark indicators always seem to be red, but the wording and grip area varies.
     
  2. May 21, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    I've only had ones, and seen NOS ones that had red for the wording and grip areas. But that certainly isn't definitive of course.
     
  3. May 21, 2018
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

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    I've seen pics of both which is what confuses me. Even the cut away for a factory sales is black http://www.ewillys.com/wp-content/uploads2/2017/02/image1.jpg. I'm beginning to think it may have been either a year thing or an option.

    It's a this summer project to rebuild the sets I have and I'm leaning towards either the all red or mixed.

    Here are the ones on the wagon. The dot is actually red but rest is black.
    image.jpg

    Maybe this is where I'm getting the red. The Lockamatic red?
    http://www.ewillys.com/wp-content/uploads2/2017/09/1959-11-warn-automatic-hub-brochure1.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
  4. May 22, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    Hmmm, those 2 pictures are interesting. I guess I'll have to start paying more attention to any Warn hubs I see.
     
  5. May 22, 2018
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    I have never seen a Lock-o-Matic that didn't have the red lettering. I will have to check on the manual versions. Should be several sets in my axle bone pile.
     
  6. May 22, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    Lock-o-matic's are what I based my answer on, didn't even think about the manual ones. An interesting tidbit is the picture shown doesn't separate the letter 0 with dashes. I wonder if that is an artist's depiction that inadvertently missed the dashes or did the earliest ones come that way?
     
  7. May 22, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

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    Mickeykelly has the answer! The M2 hubs are the earlier lockouts, and had black finger recesses when new. When the Lock o Matics came out around '63/'64, they had red finger recesses, as did most Warn hubs, it not all after that. The "dots" for free and lock I believe were always red.
    The ringed body of the early hubs was natural aluminum, but the steel counterpart on the Lock o Matics was painted black.
    -Donny
     
  8. May 22, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    Let's continue with the brain teasers.....on to model id. Mine don't have that little raised area in the recessed dial, nor do what Mickey showed. Is that because they were early and Jeep specific at that time?
     
  9. May 22, 2018
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

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    Now my curiosity got up so I went back out and cleaned the hubs on the wagon a little and you can see the wording and dots are red on the outer ring and all black on the inner brass. May be hard to tell in the pics.
    image.jpg image.jpg
     
  10. May 22, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    The plot continues to thicken.
     
  11. May 22, 2018
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

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    Then I went the stash I got from various sources and found they were too hard to tell except one was all red, but based on the outer being obviously painted black, the red wording most likely was done be someone at some point. But it gives an interesting comparison. Also note these are stamped M2 except one that says M47A. I didn't look at the underside of that one yet as they are a greasy mess, but I'm thinking the guy that gave me those for $20 shipping didn't know what thats for. He did warn me they would possibly be for parts. I won't complain as I knew was collecting possible parts only.
    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
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  12. May 23, 2018
    gotime

    gotime Sick with the car bug

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    Some of the models look very similar. If I remember correctly the M2 and WL2 look nearly identical. see this thread for information as well. Warn hub identification
     
  13. May 24, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

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    Check the axle spline count on that "M47a". It may be 27 spline, whereas the M2's are 10 spline. I've never seen that number.
    -Donny
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  14. May 25, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    I have a set of 10-spline Warn manual locking hubs that look exactly like the two on the left in mickeykelley's last photo (copied from above):

    [​IMG]

    There are three black rings around the bases, and no letters or numbers on the brass dials.

    Can anyone tell me whether these are M1, M2, WL-1, WL-2, or maybe some other model of Warn hub?

    Also, any idea as far as during what time frame they may have been manufactured?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  15. May 25, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    I'll revert back to my earlier question. Were the early ones built Jeep specific at the time? Thus no model number was actually needed, and only added when identification started to be needed?
     
  16. May 25, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Glenn, this may help to at least partially answer your questions. I found the following images of a (late 50's or early 60's?) Warn brochure from an old eBay listing on the eWillys site.

    It's a bit hard to read, as the resolution is low, but on the second page of the brochure it says in small print that each of these particular hub designs " **Fits Willys vehicles only ":

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Maury
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  17. May 25, 2018
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    Good catch Maury! First ad I've seen for Automatic hubs. :) I wonder if they first called them that but then changed to Lock-o-matic?
     
  18. May 25, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    If I'm not mistaken, I believe the Warn Automatic and Lock-O-Matic hubs were different designs that functioned somewhat differently as well. I'm not sure which one came first, though.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  19. May 25, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

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    The "automatics" in the literature look like the earlier generation before they were called Lock o Matic. I believe there was a later (as in late 1970s) "automatic" that was similar to the Lock o Matics where there was a coiled spring to help engage the mechanism. These superceded the Lock o Matics for a couple years.
    I'm sure that any of the Warn hubs fit the IH Scout also, not just Willys. I have several late '60s/early '70s Warn hubs that have IH on the dial, mostly 27 spline axle.
    That and "no special tools"? Most applications have a snap ring on the end of the axle (snap-ring pliers), and the Lock o Matics require a tiny allen wrench to extract the grub screws from the drag nut on the spindle.
    -Donny
     
  20. May 25, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    It may be that the above brochure was produced prior to 1961, the first year that International Harvester's Scout was in production. If so, that could explain the "Willys vehicles only" notation.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018

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