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Vintage T98, D18 and Overdrive

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Danefraz, Jan 12, 2014.

  1. Mar 7, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Thought about this too. I've seen 'em on the net from time to time.
     
  2. Mar 8, 2014
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Bet I know where a bunch if used ones are ;).
    Not sure on price but could check for you......


    Sent from my iPhone
     
  3. Mar 8, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Please do. PM with ideas please.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  4. Mar 8, 2014
    Wenaha

    Wenaha Member

    West Coast
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    Thanks, I'll do some research. The SM420 only came with a factory reverse light in the last year of production... mid '60's I think.

    Sorry for the modest hijack...
     
  5. Mar 8, 2014
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    It wasn't too complicated, 1/8" stamped piece of steel that fit tightly around one of the transmisson cover bolts, over where the shifter would be in reverse, some adjustment with the half nuts and it worked.
     
  6. Mar 8, 2014
    piffey263

    piffey263 Active Member

    Medford, OR
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  7. Mar 17, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Brown Santa arrives today with the T98 master kit from Novak.

    FYI Novak's return on parts you've had for 30 days or more is great as long as you pick replacements from their candy store - restock waived... Their customer service is off the hook as well, found a few things extra I needed and couldn't live without.

    Coated headers coming when the back order clears...

    Should have more T98 pictures soon as I reassemble in the evenings this week.
     
  8. Mar 17, 2014
    n6ifp

    n6ifp Member

    San Bruno/...
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    Sep 15, 2004
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    206
    I drilled my 420 shift cover and added a backup switch above the reverse shift rail.
     
  9. Mar 17, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    My thoughts too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Mar 17, 2014
    jossar

    jossar Member

    Freedom, WI
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    I added a reverse light switch to the SM420 in my 65 GMC. There are 3 pieces required. The switch, The shifter cane holddown with a tab for the switch and a lever that mounts to the bottom of the shifter cane. I cant recall where I got the holddown with the tab - new from one of the 60- 66 chevy truck suppliers, Found the switch on fleabay. The hardest thing to find was the lever that mounts to the shifter cane. I placed a wanted ad on stovebolt.com and someone had one to sell.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014
  11. Mar 17, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    I was home at lunch looking at my handy work when I slowly realized I'd put the output yoke mount on without putting the bolts for the e-brake in place... I tried a lot of angles to get it to fit. Finally had to un-torque, pull it back a bit, put the bolts in, then re-rtv the shaft and slide it all back and re-torque.

    Amazing how much you miss here and there, then get to re-do multiple times.

    It's so fun.

    Like a cross between an interlinked puzzle of a white dog in a snow storm, a 3-d puzzle of 'big ben' and then adding the nuance of a few bar puzzles as well (slip this ring past these three hoops of the same diameter and over the horse shoe to disassemble, take a sip, then reassemble...).

    Anyway.

    Back in my office I see notification that Big Brown left a package at the door. "Missed him by 'that much'" he says in his best Maxwell Smart voice.
     
  12. Mar 18, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Re: Vintage T18 (actually T98), D18 and Overdrive

    rebuild begins.

    Note: DO NOT THROW AWAY YOUR OLD PARTS... IF YOU DO, GO GET THEM!!! I cleaned my old parts with degreaser and left in a plastic microwave in-a-box-soup bowl (that crap does recycle).

    Novak makes a great kit, but a few of the 'old' things are not included.

    making the reverse idler gear back into a reverse idler assembly

    this shows the parts not included in the kit.
    [​IMG]

    I prefer to deviate from instructions here. I put the snap ring in the gear.
    Then I put the thrust washer in the assembly.
    then I lubed it with transmission assembly lube (vaseline will work if you can't find Trans. Assy. Lube)
    First row of 37 bearings in place.
    [​IMG]

    You will add a bearing spacer next (this is the thin washer)
    Here's the second row of 37 bearings all packed in there.
    [​IMG]

    Then I added the shaft sleeve. This you have to do while spinning the shaft left-right 20 degrees at a time or so (mileage may vary). Push while rotating and it pops right in. (note: make sure you don't squirt bearings out the other side, but if you've lubed them and pressed them in with your finger, you should be good to go.
    [​IMG]

    the last thrust washer and snap ring in place.
    [​IMG]

    then sit aside and start on the gear assemblies.

    as mentioned in the manual, and elsewhere here on the site, make sure you 'witness mark' your assemblies with a etch pen, notch a file scratch down the side where the parts mate (before you pull them all apart) or you may be fitting your assemblies together the hard way - a notch at a time forward, backward for 'feel - the parts should fit but not bind if they're aligned in the right spots'... this sucks but is doable if you can't find your witness marks... (just saying).

    For the T98, the T18 tremac manual is mostly a WAG suggestion. Take lots of before and after photos... they will save your bacon.

    I spent the next two hours tonight fighting the @#$^@#$$$@###@@! snap rings trying to get one, just one on the main shaft to the middle groove. I never cleared the start of the shaft.

    I need to buy me some snap ring pliers that have some man pants. The vise-grip brand I have are made for lesser snap rings.

    More photos tomorrow... after I get new pliers... and progress resumes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  13. Mar 19, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Re: Vintage T18 (actually T98) , D18 and Overdrive

    If I've not said it, the T18 manual is a mere suggestion.

    The diagrams are the best part, so you can 'sort' of see how things fit together, buuuutttt...

    Pictures here they are...

    Starting to play with the parts: (compare reality with the book ... altered states. Get a beer from fridge...)
    [​IMG]

    OK, found this somewhere, not sure where, but for these springs (there's one on each side), you should have one hook on one of the keepers, then have the spring on opposite side with the spring feet on a different keeper (it said opposing, but it's hard to find a 180 degree line on a 60 degree triangle). Does this, or sort of this, smell right?
    [​IMG]

    Playing with poppet balls. Just a note: put on your PPE Eye wear, drape rags around you in the smallest 'hanging closet' you can create, and towel the floor. This keeps poppet balls from ricocheting around the garage when they launch from one of their little keepers... (found all those of mine that went airborne).
    [​IMG]

    Mount the shaft in a vise to work on the snap rings. One less thing to hold onto. Note: use a rag, piece of leather, etc. to protect surface of parts.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'll say this now, I assembled it according to the T18 book, then I disassembled it because there's a special spacer that has a snap ring in it that cannot be seated in the order of the book.
    [​IMG]

    disassemble, flip the shaft, seat that snap ring, then build it in reverse of the T18 book.
    [​IMG]

    Notice here, the poppet balls are loose. Yeah. 15 minutes looking around the garage for them. One bounced off the wall in front of me, one off my hand and shot into the trashcan at my feet (and ended up in a rattle-can lid).
    [​IMG]

    back together going the 'right' way I think:
    notice the shim in-under there: it's the one that made me take it all apart for the snap ring to fit right.
    [​IMG]

    another snap ring in place:
    [​IMG]

    Ooooooooo
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  14. Mar 19, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Re: Vintage T18 (actually T98), D18 and Overdrive

    And now: Needle Bearings ... lots and lots of needle bearings.

    I bought new counter shafts from Novak. The old counter shaft makes a great way to put them together.

    NOTE: in the gear cluster, you have to work from one end, then from the other - at least that's how I found it easier to do.
    I put the sleeve on the shaft, and a thrust bearing then worked off the 'end near my hand'. Put the needle bearings on the shaft (lots of Assy. Lube). Once I had about half the circumference of the shaft covered with needle bearings, I put another thrust bearing on the shaft to sort of 'align' the needle bearings. Sorry no images here, my three hands were occupied.
    Then I finished the one needle bearing set, and stacked another on the thrust washer, then capped that when I finished 'em off. I inserted the one-half in the cluster gear.
    Then working at the other end of the cluster, thrust bearing, needles, another thrust, needles, and the final thrust.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Then I cleaned the interior of the transmission case with spray berrymans. It looked like I had some residual blast media dust in there, and I don't want that in my build...

    So, a half can of spray (start on one wall of the transmission and 'wash' down to the bottom, lather rinse repeat on each wall, and in the nooks and crannies).

    I mucked out about a teaspoon of media dust from the drain hole area...

    I'm pretty sure it's 'clean enough' inside now.

    and this is what it looks like on the side of the case now - I'll touch it up with a little more rattle-can when I have it all the way back together:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  15. Mar 19, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    compared my finished gear assembly with this one:
    Not too bad.

    I'll try to get it installed tonight.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
  16. Mar 22, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Hey all...

    It is together....

    Mostly. Rehabbed the top. Bolted it down. Shifted thru all the gears... Whhoooooo hhhhooooooo!

    Question remains?

    I need the shaft seal that is in the base of the T98 MDG bearing retainer.

    Mine has the ford symbol on it, and SM ... That's not quite enough for my feeble mind to cross reference.

    Anyone know what this seal is? OD is aprox 1.630", ID is aprox 1.195" and W is about 0.247".

    Standard style I think, rubber, spring, metal cup.

    I measure the MDG shaft where the seal should be at about 1.125".

    Would love to run to flaps tomorrow and finish this off...

    Thoughts?




    Fired my phaser at my abacus and it now hoses my grammar and spelling

    69 Dauntless CJ5 - The Heep
    Resto-Mod
    (heep and jeep are four letter words)
    http://www.earlycj5.net/forums/showthread.php?99079-69-Dauntless-Project-the-Heep
     
  17. Mar 24, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Seal for MDG bearing retainer (shaft).

    Timken guide .
    Seal 471652

    SKF has a similar, don't have the code handy.

    Went to local FLAPS (napa).

    Should be here before lunch tomorrow.


    Fired my phaser at my abacus and it now hoses my grammar and spelling

    69 Dauntless CJ5 - The Heep
    Resto-Mod
    (heep and jeep are four letter words)
    http://www.earlycj5.net/forums/showthread.php?99079-69-Dauntless-Project-the-Heep
     
  18. Mar 24, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Re: Vintage T18 (actually T98), D18 and Overdrive

    OK,

    More photos of progress.

    my six year old helper:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Mar 24, 2014
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Re: Vintage T18 (actually T98), D18 and Overdrive

    Ha! Transmissions really are fun, once they are on the bench.
     
  20. Mar 25, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Re: Vintage T18 (actually T98), D18 and Overdrive

    OK,

    I have few parts left over besides the old rusty pieces. Many thanks to Novak for a great kit.

    IT's back together, sans the top bolted down. but I'm concerned a little and interested in waiting a bit for advice.

    I have questions here about 'end-play' or tolerances for the transmission.

    I bolted the front-end (input shaft) stuff down first. Then tested the input shaft for spin. I could hand-spin rather easily.

    I then bolted down the rear. There was a thin paper seal that covered the small diameter area near the output shaft and the holes nearest.
    RTV'd the seal and surface.

    I then tested the 'turning by hand' and in 'neutral' was only able to rotate about 20 degrees forward / back before it started to get tight and difficult to turn. In gear (pick one) it was difficult to turn by hand.

    I put the shift tower on it, and tried all gears... first and reverse near impossible to move with the reduction. second, third and fourth would budge. neutral would move 20 degrees forward and back the same.

    There is no grinding or gnashing, just a lot of rotational resistance. It will all move (but the skin on my palms is worse for the wear, even with a rag for cushion).

    I think I need some shim on the rear to give it more 'play'. (ahem!)

    I'd like to know if I can get some 'make-a-gasket' or something similar to add a few hairs to it to let it 'unbind' or give it just a bit more play.

    My concern is that I missed a thrust washer in the MDG roller bearing set - none present at tear down, none provided in my kit - but that'd tighten things even more, and the front of the gear cluster is machined as if it were fitted to the roller bearings, iirc.

    I can also measure the end-play at either end if needed, but it seems

    btw: I found this link somewhat useful : http://www.autozone.com/autozone/re...N/T-98A-4-Speed-Overhaul/_/P-0900c1528007b199


    Pictures:

    The NAPA seal number for the MDG shaft seal: SKF 11123
    [​IMG]

    Where this seal goes:
    [​IMG]

    Bolts going on and transmission gaining weight:
    [​IMG]

    Transmission adapter to bell housing adapter adapter
    [​IMG]

    Bell housing adapter
    [​IMG]

    test fit the two
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Test fit the two adapters
    [​IMG]

    Adapters bolted in place
    [​IMG]

    Ooooh pretty
    [​IMG]

    Is that a long stickout or are you just happy to see me?
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    transmission to transfer case adapter
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Adapter in place and bolted up
    [​IMG]

    Top down
    [​IMG]

    rear view
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2014
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