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Vintage T98, D18 and Overdrive

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Danefraz, Jan 12, 2014.

  1. Mar 3, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Such great information. Certainly google failed me this time. You mentioned earlier in this thread that it seemed like this transmission was cobbled together.

    So, the case being cast as a T18 holds what Novak mentions in their library for T98:
    https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t98.htm

    "Jeep T98's may feature a casting code of 1301-174-6117. Some may have a T18-1P WG Division cast into them."

    I think I miss-read T18-1B on mine (as it has WG DIV) just under it. My eyes and the casting marks aren't exactly clear at this moment.

    AS mine is mated to a large bore D-18 transfer case, we know there's some cobbled parts, at least with the main shaft.

    Options I suppose are to rebuild as a T98 (countershaft and reverse idler gear) as well as a master rebuild kit. Don't know if a shorter stickout is available.

    Thanks for your help!
     
  2. Mar 3, 2014
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Do not go by casting numbers only. Always look inside to see what the gears and shafts tell you. I've seen more "conversions" that were parts from here and there to trust a casting number where the internals are ridiculously easily swapped.
    I've seen T-18's with T-98 guts, T-98 cases with T-18 guts, both with either T-18 or T-98 tops, the list goes on.


    Sent from my iPhone
     
  3. Mar 4, 2014
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    There's times I just need to bow down and give thanks and admire all of the people who share their knowledge on this site that you give out for free, thank you gentlemen.
    I know a few things that I try to share but you shame me.
    John
     
  4. Mar 4, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    Yes... Indeed
     
  5. Mar 4, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Question: nagging voice in my head trying to tell me something... Anyone ever have that?


    Here's what I have relative this discussion...


    Longer front drive shaft assy.
    Shorter rear drive shaft assy.


    Buick bell housing adapter
    Bell housing adapter to T18 adapter
    T18/98 to d18 large index adapter


    T18 case
    T98 top, shift lever, numbered knob
    9.5" stick out MDG
    Reverse idler (couple teeth worn more than I'd like)
    reverse control arm, pivots, etc.
    Idler bearing sleeve
    Idler shaft in good shape
    Cluster gear set in good shape
    Cluster shaft is worn
    Cluster shaft bearing spacer
    2nd gear
    3rd gear
    Sliding gear assembly


    Old rusty bearings, etc., but it's complete and disassembled.


    What's a 200 pound pile of these parts worth, cleaned, degreased, wrapped in newsprint, media blasted case - wholes chased with tap, and painted black, surfaces scotchbrited where appropriate?


    Having a nagging reality check to go with plan B (late model T18 in shed, also with transfer adapter). I was liking the vintage aspect here, but a couple things keep coming back to me.... Not sure what yet they are...

    Thoughts?


    Please no offers here, just random WAG or more free advise that provide grounded reality.

    some others have mentioned a couple things... And after learning more, it's causing me to reflect a smidge.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  6. Mar 4, 2014
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    parts are parts
    cleaned and painted... or not
    doubtful (to me) anyone will pay more for pretty painted parts.
    just my opinion
     
  7. Mar 4, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    No worries. Yes, Parts is parts, pretty or not, which is how I came by them all at once. Wanted the OD hanging off it. parts. and these parts are getting cleaned as I monkey with them deciding my, er, their fate. A couple hundred for a master kit and putting it back together to sell it doesn't make sense at the moment, it does, but doesn't. Might just box it all put in the shed for later.

    That's why I'm asking.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  8. Mar 4, 2014
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Yes.
    A longer maindrive gear requires a thicker bell adapter and that forces the transmission assembly toward the CJ's rear,
    thereby shortening the rear propeller shaft.

    A BOP bellhousing adapter is required whenever the maindrive gear stickout length excedes 7-1/8".
    That means that an adapter is required for all maindrive gears other than 6-1/2" Ford or Jeep 7-1/8".
    All T98/D18 adapters for CJ are small hole. (3-5/32" index)
    Some J trucks used T98/D20 big hole adapters. (4" index)
    All T18 adapters fit big hole transfer cases and are identicle to the T98/D20 J truck adapters.

    According to Novak; Ford used a T98 maindrive gear that was 1-1/8" diameter @ 6-1/2" stick out.
    That said, I have only come across early Ford T98 maindrive gears that are 1-3/16" diameter.
     
  9. Mar 4, 2014
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Actually that's not quite true.
    The earliest T98's prior to 1956 CJ's were designated merely as T98 and not as T98 A.
    These very early T98's were used with various industrial applications and not Jeep.
    They all had a reverse helical from the T98-A that was used with CJ's.
     
  10. Mar 4, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Ken,

    Your help and knowledge here has been invaluable.

    Many thanks for the knowledge.

    dane
     
  11. Mar 4, 2014
    piffey263

    piffey263 Active Member

    Medford, OR
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    If you have another newer t18 with adapter in your shed, check that one then decide which one to use.

    Understanding you want the overdrive, perhaps sell that overdrive after install in order to get a overdrive that works with the other application assuming you go with newer t18.

    Choose the one with the least amount of headache.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. Mar 5, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    All,

    As with other comments in this thread, mileage may vary ... I'm loving all of the superb feedback I've gotten, what I'm learning and all that - shout out to our community... :jeepwave:

    In consideration of looking for a rebuild kit and other parts, I sent a note to the great folks over at Novak. I've bought transmission master kit and adapters from them in the past, and had a great experience.
    Eric has postulated this:


    Herm also provided me with some interesting info:


    So, last night, I worked my fingers raw with soap, a wire brush and a scotchbrite pad degreasing the hard parts and the case (use gloves before you start next time duumas). I blew them dry with compressed air and then sprayed lightly with WD40 to keep the flash rust monster at bay.

    I see no major rust and no major wear other than the dings on the reverse idler gear which I've lightly touched with a dremel and stone wheel.

    More pictures to follow this evening.
     
  13. Mar 5, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    more photos after cleaning and degreasing

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  14. Mar 6, 2014
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    From what I can see it all looks to be in fairly good usable condition.
    The first and reverse gears look better than i expected from your description.
    They actuallly look to be in typical used condition.
    They typically get the most abuse.

    The countershaft is generally considered servicable if you cannot feel any wear marks around the area of the needle rollers.
     
  15. Mar 6, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    OK,


    Rebuilding is coming... I like this cool-old-thing enough to do it up...


    SO:
    Duemas question #1410...
    Anyone plumb in a backup switch to an older T98?


    I found this thread for the T90:
    http://www.earlycj5.net/forums/showthread.php?30665-T90-Adding-a-Backup-Light-Switch


    The picts are great from Howard's thread-


    Going to start rooting around on the T98 shifter top too...


    I'll keep poking around.


    Excellent service from the folks at Novak today helping me with the master kit, new countershafts and some great advice...

    I'll finish cleaning up the burs on first and the reverse idler and I should have a bullet proof setup...

    Old iron continues to live one piece at a time.

    Thanks again everyone.


    Dane
     
  16. Mar 6, 2014
    Wenaha

    Wenaha Member

    West Coast
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    This is a simple, effective solution for a T90. Uses a push button momentary on switch

    [​IMG]

    I tried to figure a way to do this simple solution on my SM420... no luck yet.
     
  17. Mar 6, 2014
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    Back in the '60s they made a mount and switch to fit the SM420, I remember putting one on my fathers truck.I doubt if they are still available given the age of the transmision.
     
  18. Mar 6, 2014
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Or get an early T-18 top with the reverse light switch provision.


    Sent from my iPhone
     
  19. Mar 7, 2014
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    Has that front bearing retainer been repaired/modified by a previous owner?
    That appearance can't be factory...can it?
     
  20. Mar 7, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Came that way from the PO.
    Scratched my head a bit on that one too. Would be an odd way to 'shorten' the retainer rather than just turning down the end.
    The 'internals' as far as seal, etc. look good in the 'tube' as if they're correct (but I don't have another T98 marked retainer to compare it to). The brazing has been turned apparently, just not by me.

    Someone mentioned chucking it up in a lathe to test how true it is. I'm short a lathe or mill but the output shaft isn't showing wear. (if I had a shop in which to tinker, these might be fixtures if I could find them reasonable with tools at a local auction or on CL).
     
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