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Varg In Jeep's Clothing

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by ITLKSEZ, Aug 20, 2015.

  1. Dec 3, 2015
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    Good point, and if it comes to that, I'll almost have to make the dash removable (or make an access panel in the cowl), which I really don't want to do. It will definitely be a last resort. I have plenty of extra space on the pass side, but it will be tricky getting the intake piping over there. Maybe I can just run the air intake up along the inside of the cowl and back out to the airbox in the pass side engine bay. It shouldn't matter how far the MAF sensor is from the intake (within reason), right? It already is at least two feet from the manifold. What's another foot? Just thinking out loud at this point...
     
  2. Dec 3, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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    I am seriously considering putting my battery in the cowl on the passenger side from the engine side in and boxing it off on the passenger area. The placement of the battery has been a big pain. Don't forget about where to put that thing.

    I would keep the MAF or other engine regulating components as close to the engine as possible to keep variables as low as possible. The electric fan option is simple, but my mechanical fan sits about that low on my rad and i have no issue. never gets above the rated temp of the thermostat. I also have a rad thats about twice the siz of stock too and aluminum which dissipates heat better than brass and copper. Cheap, summit or jegs or something.
     
  3. Dec 3, 2015
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    Yeah, that battery has been in the back of my mind this whole time. I'm hoping there will be room for it up near the factory location, depending on what I use for shock mounts. Otherwise, it will be getting recessed in a box under one of the seats. Or maybe I'll get 3 or 4 small lawn and garden batteries and stick them where I can, wired in series. :rolleyes:

    I start to go crazy when I think about everything that needs to be done. I still have no clue how I'm going to make the fuel tank/delivery system work. The giant nut and plate that held the whole sending unit/small fuel pump/fill hoses into the plastic Volvo tank mounts at about a 60° angle. That means the tank I build will need that angle on the one side, and a matching access panel in the floor above it. Just another obstacle. It'll be a miracle if I can pull this off.
     
  4. Dec 3, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

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    I am right there with you on the insane part when thinking about the over all project. Gotta compartmentalize. Get one thing done, move to next, etc. Some of it you have no choice but to look overall...
     
  5. Dec 3, 2015
    SFaulken

    SFaulken Member

    Renton, WA
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    Do NOT do this. You need to have the MAF a minimum of 12" (IIRC from our digging) away from the intake, and in a straight-ish piece of ducting/pipe.

    Ask me how I know this.

    1929 Model A pickup, with a 2.5L Turbo out of a 740. My Dad has it, and we fought all kinds of engine weirdness. Did a little rooting around, and we had the MAF mounted too close to the intake, and had a 90 degree bend between the MAF and the Intake, which was causing turbulence issues, which caused it to run funny.

    Bends in the pipe are actually OK, you just want to keep them gentle.
     
  6. Dec 4, 2015
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    Thanks for sharing your experience, SFaulken. I know it's a whole different beast, but on the turbo version, the air travels about 6 feet between the MAF (attached to the air box) and the intake - through the turbo, intercooler, and a ton of piping connecting everything. This N/A MAF sensor is about 18" from the intake. I figured it wouldn't hurt if it was a little further, but I hadn't considered the severity of the bends being an issue.

    Everything else seems to be falling into place, but this intake location might be a real headache. It points right down at the fender. My choices on where to go from there are limited. I'd love to send it in through the firewall, but I need to go with swinging pedals on this because of MC/bellhousing clearance issues and the clutch cable. I'm pretty sure I won't have the room in there. We'll see.

    I started working on motor mounts last night and ran out of steel. Off to the yard today to restock my supplies.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  7. Dec 4, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

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    Put the air box on the inner fender right next to the rad and behind the headlight. You're going electric fan so offset the shroud that you're going to make to the passenger side a bit. you could pipe the air box in under the cowl, but you're going to have no room with the gauges and the swinging pedal/booster mess thats going to happen. I am making some assumptions. I would try and keep the MAF/pipeing and air box as close to stock as possible. KISS.
     
  8. Dec 4, 2015
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    Ya know that $20 Dakota 46RE transmission I got my splined shafts out of for my trans adapter? I had completely disassembled it, and I cashed out the aluminum from it today. I got $20.50! I got the parts I needed from it and made $.50 profit! Rad!

    That is my plan at this point, but on the pass. side. I'm planning on using a scout steering box, so that area on the drivers side will be a little tight. The Volvo airbox is around 1' x 1' x 1', so I'll probably end up being forced to use something like this random pic on the internet for an air cleaner, and just run the MAF sensor in the middle of the intake plumbing (that will more than likely be routed over the grill), in its stock location. It will just have another 2' of plumbing upwind of it, rather than the immediate air cleaner box.

    For the motor mounts, I was planning on just making two outriggers to mount the giant factory engine mounts on. That evolved into the idea of bending a piece of tubing under the oil pan spanning the frame rails and making it a frame crossmember. But like everything else with this project, the more I overthink it, the more complex it gets. Now I'm probably going to spend countless hours behind a bandsaw, making a 100 pc. crossmember that will be a work of art with bushing-style motor mounts, ditching the factory aluminum brackets. I don't really trust them with the multiplied torque of the t-case. Go big or go home, right?
     
  9. Dec 4, 2015
    Fly Navy

    Fly Navy Member

    Emerson, IA
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    Scout steering boxes can be expensive and hard to find, unless you already have one. 78-79 Ford F150/Broncos used a steering box just like scouts (mount to the outside of the frame, pitman arm forward, etc) and are much cheaper and easier to find. That is what I am using.
     
  10. Dec 4, 2015
    SFaulken

    SFaulken Member

    Renton, WA
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    Right. This unit isn't using the intercooler, the plumbing is Air Filter (One of those cone style filters you always see in "cold air intake" kits -> Small Bit (around 4") of Tubing -> MAF -> around 13" of tubing -> Intake side of the turbo.

    The turbo does change the velocities a bit, when it's under boost, admittedly, but we actually came up with that 12"-ish number from looking at a number of sources from both Turbo and N/A applications, not all necessarily Volvos either. We basically started with a google search for the oddness the engine was presenting, and worked backwards from there.
     
  11. Dec 7, 2015
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    Thanks for the head's up on the steering boxes Fly Navy. I remembered seeing your thread, but I couldn't remember where it was or what you used.

    Thank you for the MAF knowledge SFaulken. That is months (years?) down the road, but something I have to be conscious of the whole time.


    I only had a few hours to commit to this thing over the weekend, but I managed to get in some quality seat-time behind the band saw, and I got these motor mounts tacked together. The ones they are replacing are behind them.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  12. Dec 9, 2015
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    One thing I've been pondering since the beginning of this build has been the axle choice.

    Ideally, I'd like to have something in the 53-54" WMS to WMS range. The only stock axles that fall in the range of what I want are:
    -70's CJs at 51.5"F & 50"R (a little too narrow),
    -Wide track CJ axles at 55.8"F & 55"R (unobtanium in my area), and
    -Toyota truck axles at 55.5 F and 55"R (but I'm not a fan of the closed knuckles and Birfields).

    I've been churning this idea around in my head; tell me if I have any facts wrong, or it's just a stupid idea:

    Use a 1st generation Toyota rear. 4:10 gears, 55" wide, easily obtained for cheap.

    The front is where it gets interesting...
    The rear axle that came with the Volvo donor car is a "1031" model. Dime a dozen in junk yards. This axle is sort of a hybrid between a Dana 30 and a Dana 35. It uses a dana 30 case (bringing with it all the Dana 30 LS and locker possibilities) with what is essentially a Dana 35 ring and pinion, but the ring gear is drilled to mate to the Dana 30 case.

    I'm 99% sure the 1031 axle uses the same 27 spline shaft as the D30. I'll check before doing anything drastic.

    The axle tubes are the same 2.5" diameter as my '73 Dana 30.

    Here's the plan:
    -Use the inner long-side shaft from a narrow-track D30.
    -Use the inner short-side shaft from a wide-track D30.
    -Find a junk D30 to steal the inner Cs off of and fit them onto the 1031 axle.
    -Use complete D44 outer knuckle assemblies and axle shafts from a 1/2 ton Chevy for the disk brakes, flat-top knuckle benefits, and 6-lug hubs to match the Toyota rear.

    This should get me in the realm of 55" WMS to WMS, plus it will center the front pumpkin about an inch more, allowing more room for spring options up front. With the amount that I'm shifting my engine to the left, axle:engine clearance shouldn't be an issue.

    Opinions? Comments?

    I know it's a lot of work for what will essentially only be as strong as a D30, but it should be plenty strong for what I intend to do with it.
     
  13. Dec 9, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

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    why not just put a narrow jeep D30 under it?. Get a rear tapered D44 and make the full float kit yourself? I am all for projects, but why over complicate things? If you don't want the d30, get a 44 from a blazer and narrow it yourself to whatever you want. If you're using the dana 300 , put in a ford 9". There are so many things that are so less complicated and easily available. Come on, you should have zero issues narrowing a d44.
     
  14. Dec 9, 2015
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    First off, the extra inch or two of ground clearance that a 1031 and Toyota 8" would gain me over a D44 might be critical. I'll only be running 32s at most, in a land of rigs on 35s, at minimum.

    Second, I'm not a big fan of narrowing axles unless I can use factory shafts. Hence, the complicated mish-mash of parts I laid out in my plan. As complex as it sounds, it's still just a bunch of off-the-shelf parts aside from the custom axle tubes. Replacement parts are cheap and easy.

    I also like the uniqueness of the Volvo axle. It was so widely used, yet virtually unknown. Aside from cutting the tubes to the proper length and welding the inner-Cs on, it should be a bolt-together operation.
     
  15. Dec 9, 2015
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

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    I also really like the idea of having more room for a wider spring pad on the passengers side. I like to use 2 1/2" wide springs but keep the outside of the spring flush with the outside of the frame to retain steering range. This isn't easy on a standard D30 without performing some magic with a u-bolt and a funky perch.
     
  16. Dec 9, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

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    like this?
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Dec 9, 2015
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    Precisely. And your springs sit out from the frame (not flush), don't they?
     
  18. Dec 9, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

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    I see what you mean, but its less than about 3/8 of an inch. You gain about 3" overall width on a narrow track d30 over a 25 or 27. Springs are in the same place, so you get a better turning radius.
     
  19. Dec 9, 2015
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    True, and good point, but it's still nowhere near what it could be with an added inch or two, especially on tires bigger than 32s (which I still might make happen some day).
     
  20. Dec 10, 2015
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    Why do simple motor mounts from a basic tubing crossmember when you can spend a few weeks making templates and sitting behind a bandsaw cutting parts to make a completely custom one? :)

    I need to notch and box the marked section to accept the oil filter removal.

    [​IMG]

    Everything is just roughly tacked in place. The cradle and driver's side mount still need to be boxed. I'll brace it, cut the tacks and remove the whole member to weld up, then put it back in to weld it in place.

    [​IMG]

    Drivers side

    [​IMG]

    View from the front.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
    Muzikp likes this.

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