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Transfer Case Problem

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by ardan, May 29, 2019.

  1. May 29, 2019
    ardan

    ardan New Member

    West Tennessee
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    28
    Hi All,

    I am a novice at this type of thing, but I am trying to fix up an old CJ3a as best I can. Since the Clutch was out I had to pull the transmission and the transfer case. They where both working well when I pulled them so even though there was a little rust spot here and there I decided to just clean them up and put them back after I cleaned them up a bit. Before I reinstalled them on the the jeep I tested to make sure all the gears where working and nothing would turn, except in neutral. I wasn't sure what was the lock up so I pulled the "PTO" gear (I don't know what the correct name is) that connects the transmission to the transfer case and the transmission is fine it is the transfer case gears that will not spin. If the transfer case is in neutral the big gear will spin but the others will not. So with the transfer case in High/Out the rear drive shaft connector will not spin because the gears mark with red arrows will not spin. I have tried every setting and they will not spin no matter what. They do "shuffle" about an 8th of inch back and forth like they are locked but I cannot figure out how or why. Any input you all could provide would be greatly appreciated. Is this common?, am I an idiot and forgot something simple? Will this require a full rebuilt (Which I am not warm and fuzzy to) any information at all. If I take it apart I don't even know what to look for.

    Thanks upload_2019-5-29_6-30-1.png

    upload_2019-5-29_6-30-1.png
     
  2. May 29, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    5,613
    Not really.

    Seems unlikely.

    Probably not.


    I'm going to guess the intermediate shaft bearings have got locked up.

    [​IMG]

    Rebuilds on these things are silly simple, lots of on-line guides & videos to walk you through it & it's already out which is a good part of the hard stuff out of the way.

    http://www.willystech.com/wt/Model18TCase/Model18TransferCase.html
     
  3. May 29, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Messages:
    590
    Per Howard's suggestion, see if there is any movement at all in the intermediate gear (#43 in Howard's provided diagram). This is kind of the "weak link" in a Dana 18. Replacing the intermediate shaft, bearings and thrust washers can be done through the bottom without any further disassembly.

    I would recommend Novak's intermediate shaft and kit, it is hardened and better quality than the others available.

    Parts for the Dana Model 18 Transfer Case
     
  4. May 29, 2019
    ardan

    ardan New Member

    West Tennessee
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    28
    Thanks for your answers, I will take a look at that intermediate shaft and kit.
     
  5. May 29, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

    Tantallon, Nova...
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
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    5,613
    A couple of points-

    If the bearings really are siezed you may have some fun getting the shaft out, there may possibly be a trip in your future to a maching shop with a really BIG press.

    Those shafts are tapered at one end, they only go in from the rear of the case & thats the only way they'll come out, if the machine shop with the really BIG press tries it the other way you'll end up with a broken case. :(
     
  6. May 29, 2019
    ardan

    ardan New Member

    West Tennessee
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    28
    Thanks I will keep my eye on that, hopefully it will come out without to much trouble.... but that is important information to know...THanks..
     
  7. May 29, 2019
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
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    Mar 6, 2004
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    All this seems odd to me considering that you say everything worked well before you removed it. Leads me to believe that something simply got jammed or misaligned. Not to say the bearings may not be bad and got misaligned somehow, maybe by dropping or jarring the case or something. Did you move the shifters around while it was out before it jammed up?
     
  8. May 30, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    2,113
    Could it be possible to lock it up by accident if the front and rear drive gears are not both in 'hi' or 'low', but are in opposite ranges?
     
  9. May 30, 2019
    sgogpn

    sgogpn Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Glendale, AZ.
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
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    310
    So just to understand what you did...
    You removed trans and transfer case and both worked before disassembly. You didn't disassemble either one, you just cleaned them up and reinstalled trans. You checked the transfer case and noticed that the gears were locked up.
    It's odd that the TC would be locked up in this scenario. Usually a lock up situation comes about as a result of a problem during reassembly of a rebuild. I've seen problems with shifter/interlock pills, gears in backwards, etc. Once I helped a guy figure out why a gear wouldn't turn and it turned out to be a bolt that was holding the front retainer was longer than the one he took out, going through the case far enough to hit the gear and keep it from turning.
    This is intriguing; tell us more about what your procedure was and what you did during the cleanup and reinstall. Any more pics you could provide might help as well. We WILL figure this out with you and we'll all learn from it.
    Lastly, try not to get to frustrated over it; We've all been in your shoes at one time or another and we're here to help, and happy to do so.:)
    Keep us posted,
    Mike
     
  10. May 30, 2019
    ardan

    ardan New Member

    West Tennessee
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    28
    Hi All,

    Thanks for all of the great feedback, sorry to be so long winded but hopefully what I have found will help someone else down the road. Let me be clear that when I said it worked before I took the transfer case and transmission off, The jeep had set idle in a garage for who knows how long, I got it running and drove it to the end of my street and back. During my test drive I changed from 1st to 2nd and reverse and that was it. I didn't know what the true condition was so I was afraid to drive it any further. So yes they worked but for only about 1/2 a mile. I knew the clutch was bad so I pulled the Trans and Transfer case to get to the clutch, that is when I cleaned up the transfer case and transmission. I pressure washed the outside and pored a thin oil through both then used a mineral spirit sprayer to clean the inside out. replaced the easily accessed gaskets and painted the outside. They sat in my garage for a couple of weeks while I waited on my flywheel to get refinished. After I installed the flywheel that is when I returned to the Transmission and transfer case. This is when I found the locked gears. Following the advice given earlier in this thread and some youtube videos I removed the intermediate gear and found that the caged bearings where completing seized, wouldn't turn at all, I am not sure how I drove it the half mile I did. So the advise given by the good folks on this forum was correct!

    What I have learned is that my willys is going to need a lot more love than I thought, I am really thinking about attempting to rebuilt the T90 now (even though it scares me to death), and much of the transfer case. The frame was in great shape I just didn't realize that other points where so weak. I would like to thank you all once again and since I am learning I know I will be back, Hopefully if someone else has this issue this thread will be a help to them.

    Thanks All,....
     
    ITLKSEZ, Twin2 and FinoCJ like this.
  11. May 30, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Sounds like you have plenty of skill to rebuild both...I had never done anything like it when I rebuilt mine a few years ago. I used novak kits and but found Moses ludel's rebuild guide and the FSM to be very helpful. I used just normal old garage tools...nothing special needed except some snap ring pliers.
     
  12. Jun 3, 2019
    masscj2a

    masscj2a Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Chester Mass
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    Dec 27, 2013
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    Just finished up a super 18 big hole, using Novaks master kit. It was a snap. Only wish I had the mulla for the Terra low kit at the time. Will be doing another 18 soon. There are a few good videos on You tube on the process. Actually looking forward to the next one. Also just did a T18 with their kit and doing a second one of those as well in the future. Like James said, the good snap ring pliers are a must. Without good ones, you might have a few swear words cross the lips. Well, at least at my house they did. Bought a good pair and make it a lot easier. OH, and safety glasses !
     
  13. Jun 26, 2019
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Sep 17, 2009
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    If you are going to rebuild the D18, do yourself a big favor and just get the AA tapered roller bearing intermediate shaft kit. Probably the best improvement you can make on a 18 and an easy install. The Tera Low gears are also great but unless you are serious about off-roading, probably not worth the investment.
     
    OldAdobe likes this.
  14. Jun 26, 2019
    Alan28

    Alan28 Well-Known Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Ch√Ętillon en...
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    Our old Jeeps are a lesson of humility in front of adversity.
    What is sure is that * one day * it will work like a new one.
    We must keep this in mind, be patient, pay and give free time not neglecting the family.
    I bought mine in 2011. We are in 2019 and it or she works better and better. Miracle.
     
    Keys5a likes this.
  15. Jun 27, 2019
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

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    As much as I agree the taper roller bearing kit is a BIG improvement, and its easy to install, the big caveat is you must first machine the intermediate gear to accept the bearing races; not an easy job!
    -Donny
     
  16. Jun 27, 2019
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    You just put it in a box and send it to McRuff----
     
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