1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Top Support Attachment To Body

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by Wirework, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. Nov 10, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim Sponsor

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    389
    My 1969 CJ5 has "tube wells" along the upper edge near the center of both rear fenders. There is a second set of two tube wells bolted to the two rear corners.
    [​IMG]
    I've looked on line for examples of soft top frames which use these wells, but haven't identified any. Are there current manufacture soft tops which use them?

    Or, are they used for something else? Am I mistaken about what they are for?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Nov 10, 2016
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,593
    Those top bow sockets on the reat corners are supposed to be welded on the body, but at least you have them. It seems that sometime in 1966, Kaiser discontinued this feature. Most, if not all '65's have them on the rear corners, but only early production '66's seem have them present. I have a later '66 that doesn't have them.
    When the CJ5 came out in '55, these sockets were used for the top bows supplied for the early Jeeps. By around 1960, it seems that most of the soft tops had their frames mounted on the top body rail near that forward socket via an angle bracket. This later design mounted the rear bow about 6" up from the base of the main bow, and it angled back at about 45*. Just about every civillian soft top from the 1960's-up has used this later design frame, making the need for the top bow sockets obsolete. My guess is that is why they disappeared around 1966.
    I still like seeing the rear corner sockets on our CJ5's and 6's as a reminder of the ansestery of how simple our vehicles are.
    -Donny
     
  3. Nov 10, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim Sponsor

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    389
    Thanks, Donny. Nice info.

    So if I understand correctly, those early top bow designs will be very difficult to find (I haven't found them after looking several times). I thought to just get some electrical conduit tubes and fab my own but I can't find a reference to copy.

    JimS
     
  4. Nov 10, 2016
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    7,611
    The convertible tops mounted bows up top so that they would fold down.
    Square back tops would use both sets bow pockets.
    Kayline included bow pockets with standard and luxair model tops (square back).
    You used them only if your Jeep didn't have them.
    Kayline continued to furnish them as parts that could be purchased separately well into the late 70's.

    Wirework, what brand of top do you have ?
     
  5. Nov 10, 2016
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,593
    The rear corner sockets are commonly available on eBay, though all seem to be Omix repops. You shouldn't need to fab them with these available.
    -Donny
     
  6. Nov 10, 2016
    aallison

    aallison 74 cj6, 76 cj5. Has anyone seen my screwdriver?

    Green Cove...
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,763
    I have seen the rear corner bow holders many times but never the ones in the tub along the fender. I need to watch for those.

    Are those for aftermarket tops? Are they with all jeeps with the rear corner bows?
     
  7. Nov 10, 2016
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

    Republic of Texas
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,170
    One of mine is in pretty bad shape due to PO making a wood and metal hardtop that was heavy as hell. Are the Omix ones good or bad like most of their stuff?
     
  8. Nov 11, 2016
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    18,977
    If you want a top with the rigid bows, I expect you'll have to buy a top from one of the military top makers. Nate (Garage Gnome) has a nice top for his flat fender Jeep that is of that style, I recall. Maybe search old posts or send him a PM, if you want that style.
     
  9. Nov 11, 2016
    Uncle Vin

    Uncle Vin Sponsor Sponsor

    Long Island, New...
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    256
  10. Nov 11, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim Sponsor

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    389
    I just have the bikini top the PO included and I'm researching options. I thought to get close to the 1960's era look if posdible.
     
  11. Nov 11, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim Sponsor

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    389
    Thanks, I'll do a search.
     
  12. Nov 11, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim Sponsor

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    389
    I have the sockets
    'Sorry, Donny, I have all the sockets; it's the bows and tops that fit in them that I am researching.
     
  13. Nov 11, 2016
    Greenshirt82

    Greenshirt82 The Old Girl - '69 CJ5

    Southern Maryland
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    257
    The bows are basically 1" tube, bent to shape. Three pieces each, front and rear. There is then a 3/8" rod between the two sets, that fit into holes drilled into the tubes. Between the front bow and the windshield are three rods, one each side and one in the center. The rods are high on the bow frame and are basically the lower edge of the canvas top and act as the attachment points for the side curtains.

    CJ5 bows are hard to find, but you can use CJ3 bows as long as you plan to fit the bows and canvas as a custom installation. The rods are short by about an inch for a CJ5. It's what I'm doing but the project stalled over the summer because the weather was too nice and I drove it instead of working on it.

    I'll take some pics this weekend and post.
     
  14. Nov 11, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim Sponsor

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    389
    That will be great to see. If you can capture the height and curve diameter dimensions I'd appreciate it; I will fab my own bows based on your dimensions if you can share them. Are you making your own canvas top or using a purchased one?

    Thanks.
     
  15. Nov 11, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim Sponsor

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    389
    That will be great! If you can capture the height and curve diameter, I'd like to copy them when I fab my own. I'll share the effort here.

    Thanks.
     
  16. Nov 12, 2016
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

    Republic of Texas
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,170
    I'd love to see the pics too. No one chimed in on the issues, if any, with the Omix replacements. Would love to hear about them.
     
  17. Nov 13, 2016
    Greenshirt82

    Greenshirt82 The Old Girl - '69 CJ5

    Southern Maryland
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    257
    As promised. First picture is an overview.
    [​IMG]
    Hard to see, but 13 parts total to the bows & rods.

    Rear bows, 3 parts left, right and across the top:
    [​IMG]

    Apart:
    [​IMG]
    Measurements: 41 3/4" for the curved support, end-to-end external. Vertical is 36", horizontal is 8". Top member is 47 1/2 " E2E.

    Note, these are the same measurements as the front bows, but there are detail differences.

    Detail view of where the top bow and support meet:
    [​IMG]

    Rods. All are ~3/8".
    [​IMG]

    Measurements:
    Short one is 28", but needs to be 30" for my CJ5. It goes between the vertical supports and is the attachment point for the top/side curtains (see pic below).
    [​IMG]

    Long one is 30 1/2 ", but 30" would work. It is a vertical rod that goes through those things on the top rod. It is the front attachment point for the side currents, as well as the "door jamb" for the door. The bottom end goes through a hole in the tub edge, to rest on the fender.
    [​IMG]

    The top rod goes from the front bow to the windshield. As seen in the (poor) photo above, the curved end (~3/4") drops into the L bracket that is welded on the vertical support. The other (flat) end attaches to the windshield via another L bracket, or whatever support you fab. Since mine has a Meyer hard top bracket on the windshield, I will likely attach it there, but I haven't made a final decision yet.

    Length of the horizontal rod (with bend and flat end) is 34 3/4", but this likely will need to be "cut to fit".

    Front bows and the rod that goes between the bow top and the windshield. This rod keeps the top from sagging onto your head. Bow measurements are the same as the rear, the rod is 35" E2E with 3/4 in bends that are flattened to fit.
    [​IMG]

    Ends of that support between windshield:
    [​IMG]

    And the top bow:
    [​IMG]

    I looked at making my own, but realized I knew too little and decided to buy the set from Beachwood Canvas. Now that I have them, they were not worth the price as it's obvious that with a tube bender and some other basic tools this could be made on the very cheap. However I can't do the welding so that's a job I have to find a friend to help with. I also cannot begin to describe the door complexity, so I'm glad I've got something I can make fit.

    For the install I started with the front bow and adjusted based on the seat position. I don't want the "cab" back to rub the back of the seats. The rear bows go where they go. Once I got the bows right, I then started fitting the rods. The side rods (bend on rear, flat on front) don't quite go where I'd prefer, but they work. If I moved the bow back 1/2" they'd fit better, but the center rod would not fit at all.

    The rear bow sits about 1" too low for my taste, so I'll add a 1" extension to the lower end of the vertical so that the top line is level with the front bow. It's a "look" thing. Speaking of which, this is the "look" I'm going for in the top:
    [​IMG]

    Ultimately the top will have 9 pieces, all custom made to fit:
    1. Top from windshield to front bow;
    2. Top from front bow to rear bow;
    3. Rear panel that fits to the rear top with the outer bottoms attaching to the footman loops on the body;
    4. Rear roll up panel that fits into the Rear panel with the bottom attaching to the footman loops on the tailgate;
    5. Left curtain;
    6. Right curtain;
    7. Left door;
    8. Right door;
    9. Lower "fill" piece that attaches to the bottom of the Rear rollup panel when the rear bow and rear top are removed, attaching to the footman loops on the bed just behind the seats.
    That last bit allows for a "cab" or pickup look to the CJ5 that I like. You can buy this from beachwood canvas, but it is very expensive and may not fit. I've got a local upholsterer who restores antique/historic cars and he can easily do this top.

    I may also have a 10th piece made that is a bikini top to simply wrap over the front bow and then tied to the footman loops.

    Hope this helps.
     
  18. Nov 13, 2016
    mickeykelley

    mickeykelley Active Member

    Republic of Texas
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,170
    So just out of curiosity, how much is the bow set at beechwood? I can't seem to get their catalog up.
     
  19. Nov 13, 2016
    Greenshirt82

    Greenshirt82 The Old Girl - '69 CJ5

    Southern Maryland
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    257
    $900, but that's with the doors, IIRC.
     
  20. Nov 13, 2016
    Wirework

    Wirework Navy_Jim Sponsor

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    389
    Wow! What a great reply. Thank you very much.

    If anyone has an old standard top that cannot be used, I would be willing to take it apart and create a sewing pattern which I could publish here.

    P.S. that photo is also the model for my rebuild!
     

Share This Page

New Posts