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The " Bump Lug " Rim - Another Original Mid-60's 15" Wheel?

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by maurywhurt, May 16, 2018.

  1. May 16, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I've been looking through a bunch of previous threads on original / OEM 15" jeep wheels, as the ones on my '67 are slightly different than the majority that appear on CJ5s of mid-60's vintage. Most of the wheels on jeeps of that year range are like the one pictured below, with the flat "lug ring" encompassing the lug bolt holes:

    [​IMG]

    There is no doubt that the above is an example of an OEM CJ5 wheel. But there is evidence that more than one type of OEM 15" wheel came on mid-1960's CJ5s.

    The wheels on my jeep are this type, without the lug ring, but with "bumps" between the lug holes. For lack of a better name, I'll call it a "bump-lug" wheel:

    [​IMG]

    I've often seen wheels like these described as Ford wheels, but I believe the wheels on my jeep are the original type it was purchased with. The evidence I can offer for this is as follows:

    When I bought my jeep in 2010, I purchased it from the son-in-law of the deceased original owner, who had bought it new in late 1966 (it was manufactured in August of '66). He told me that over time, the original wheels had all become too rusty internally to use, so he'd had to replace them with aftermarket wheels - except for the spare, which was on the last remaining original 15" wheel. Here's a photo of the jeep when I purchased it, followed by an enlargement of the spare tire wheel:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The son in law also gave me several original Polaroid photos of the jeep his father in law took shortly after purchasing it. Here are scans of two of them:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Below are enlargements of the original spare and front tires from the above Polaroid photos, paired with more recent photos of the original (repainted) spare tire wheel taken from similar angles:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I was subsequently able to locate and buy a set of four wheels matching the original spare. The seller advertised these four wheels as being originals from a 1965 CJ5. When I got them, I noticed that on the insides of the rims (between the tire bead seats), they were stamped KH, presumably for Kelsey-Hayes. The stamping also indicated a manufacture date of 1965. I'll try to get a photo of this stamping the next time I have a tire off. I could find no indication of an oval or Ford stamping on any of them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  2. May 16, 2018
    1967 CJ5A

    1967 CJ5A Mike 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    This type of wheels were just discussed in this thread:
    http://earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/name-that-wheel.130432/

    I believe you are correct that these rims are stock. My 67 came to me with them, and it was very unmolested. In fact, the spare was a whitewall Goodyear Suburbanite tire that still had the nubs on it- which I believe was the tire it came with from the factory.

    Looks like the tires in your photos are also Suburbanites, although not the whitewall version.
     
  3. May 16, 2018
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

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    Yes we have seen several small differences in wheels that are definitely original wheels. Photos tell the story.
     
  4. May 16, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks very much for pointing out that previous thread on these same wheels, which I'd missed. If I'd seen it beforehand, I would've just added my post there instead of starting a new thread.

    It appears that these wheels were indeed OEM on some CJ5s in the mid-60's. As more conclusive evidence of this, I just found among my stash of digital pictures this 1965 factory / marketing photo of an early '66 (V6 with hood snorkel cutout) CJ5:

    [​IMG]

    Here's an enlargement of the front wheel:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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  5. May 21, 2018
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

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    This thread had me a bit confounded as I believed there was only one type of wheel available. Even after reading the posts, I was skeptical. Well, today, while I was at my storage garage, I bent over and took a good look at the wheels on my '66 Tuxedo Park. Well, have mercy, it has the wheels with the raised bumps between the lugs.

    I can say with 98% confidence that these wheels are original to the JEEP. I am the 3rd owner, preceded by the JEEPs original owner and his grandson. It has a documented 12k + on the clock and still had the original hubcaps on it when I drove it home.

    Hope this helps anyone else who may have been a doubter. I no longer am.
     
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  6. May 21, 2018
    ojgrsoi

    ojgrsoi Retired 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Interesting for sure. Maybe these were the stock wheel. This is a late 65 build titled as a 65 photographed right before I sold it . Wheels are original to this JEEP. It had 17,xxx when I sold it.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
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  7. May 22, 2018
    Beach66Bum

    Beach66Bum 1966 Tuxedo Park Mark IV 2024 Sponsor

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    These are on my 1966. I need to paint them white!!
     
  8. May 22, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Based on the posts in this thread and on others, it seems that these "bump-lug" wheels appeared as OEM most frequently on 1966 model CJ5's and CJ5a's, though also on some '65s and '67s. In any case, the use of the bump-lug type wheels as original equipment seems to have lasted for a relatively short period of time - likely only a couple of years or less.

    I wonder what the reason was for these wheels being OEM on (at least some) CJs during that time frame, and whether that was driven by Kaiser Jeep or by Kelsey-Hayes?
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
  9. May 22, 2018
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

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    Probably had something to do with wanting hubcap possibilities.
     
  10. May 22, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    I have a 6/'64, and 12/'64 build date Tuxes, and parted a 7/'64, and and all three had the raised ring style steel rims, all painted white.
    I also was skeptical of the rims with raised bumps around the lugs being original, but you guys have convinced me they probably are. I'm wondering if the wheel style changed for the '66 model year, as most of the examples seem to be from the '66 and '67 models.
    The 1966 model year had a lot of changes from the previous years. In addition to the V6 option, the hood snorkel cutout and the rear corner stake pockets disappeared, they went to foam seats, and the passenger seat mount changed. Maybe the wheel supplier changed too?
    Both style wheels in this era had 3 hubcap nubs, so the smaller diameter dogdish hubcaps fit either style.
    -Donny
     
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  11. May 22, 2018
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

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    Soooooo..........any '68s with this style wheel? '69? Do I hear a '70?
     
  12. May 23, 2018
    1947cj2a

    1947cj2a Member

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    The first picture is of my wheel the Jeep was built in September of 69 and sold as a 1970. Iam the 3rd owner and iam pretty sure the wheels are original to the Jeep.
    The funny thing is that my spare wheel, which has an original goodyear suburbinate, is black and of the other style. 2nd and 3rd picture of the OP.
     
  13. May 23, 2018
    1947cj2a

    1947cj2a Member

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    Do these wheels have any markings such as numbers or letters around the valve stem?
     
  14. May 24, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Yep....I'm not sure what the first digit or symbol to the left of the valve stem is, but it is followed by a 9, and on the right side of the stem by a 3 and a 55 (or maybe 5.5):

    [​IMG]

    As I mentioned in my initial post above, there are some additional stampings between the tire bead seats which are visible only when the tire is removed.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
  15. May 24, 2018
    1947cj2a

    1947cj2a Member

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    My spare has some markings on the left of the valve stem. Then 29 55 on the other side of the valve stem.
    I think 29 is part of the date code and 55 is the wheel width according to some of the little research I have done.
    It does look like that if it's a Ford or GM wheel it will have those logos on the wheel somewhere

    I would like to figure it out though. It's also strange that the white wheels on the Jeep have no markings but maybe they are on the inside and only visable once the tire is off
     
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  16. May 30, 2018
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    In case there are still some doubters out there, this may help convince them.

    This CJ5 ad is from 1966:

    [​IMG]

    An enlargement of the fender and hood area shows that the Dauntless V6 jeep pictured is in fact an early 1966 model, as the hood has the snorkel cover plate which was deleted later in that model year:

    [​IMG]

    In the magazine ad print, the wheel is not clear enough to determine which type it is. However, I was able to find an original 8x10 black & white version of the photo used in the ad:

    [​IMG]

    A high-resolution scan of the wheel shows that it is in fact the "bump-lug" type. The bump at the top of the bolt circle is clearly visible:

    [​IMG]


    Below is another "factory photo" that appeared on the cover of Dispatcher magazine earlier this year. It's a Kaiser marketing shot of a "462" Jeep, which was only produced for a few months during the summer of 1969:

    [​IMG]


    Here's an enlargement of the rear wheel, which is clearly the "bump-lug" type:

    [​IMG]

    Maury
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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  17. May 31, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    I'm convinced there are two different "original" style rims (see post #10) where the bump lug style appears around the '66 model year. I'm pretty sure a '70 or '71 I used to work on had the raised ring style, so did Kaiser go back to this style after a couple/few years the bump lug style? If I read correctly, 1947cj2a (post #12) has a very early 1970 with the raised ring style. Any other observations?
    Anyone have a early/mid/year '65? Ojgrsoi posted (#6) his former Late '65 Tux had the bump lug rims.
    -Donny
     
  18. May 31, 2018
    TuxParkIV

    TuxParkIV Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I am having a difficult time finding 4 of either style. If the measurements are the same is it acceptable to mix? Two on the front two on the back till a fourth joins the family? I am new here if this is way off I apologize.
     
  19. May 31, 2018
    ojgrsoi

    ojgrsoi Retired 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Two left and two right. No one will ever notice. :)
     
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  20. Jul 10, 2018
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

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    So, I just dismounted tires from 2 of these style rims, which I recently came into possession of. Kelsey hayes logo inside, along with some other stuff. 15 x 5 1/2. Didn't look outside at the valve stem area. I'll post up some pictures, I hope, soon.
     
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