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Synchronized 1st Gear

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by Siskiwit, Nov 13, 2018.

  1. Nov 13, 2018
    Siskiwit

    Siskiwit Member

    Northern Wisconsin
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    This winter I’m going to be starting on restoring a ‘48 cj2a for a hunting vehicle.This may be a dumb question but if a guy wanted to put a transmission with a synchronized 1st gear what are my options? I have a ‘70 with a t14 that I would like to use, I don’t think it would work but if I could make it fit what would be involved? If not doable is there any other options for me. The engine and axles will be kept the only difference will be the transmission. Thanks for any replies.
     
  2. Nov 13, 2018
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    For the 134?
    Your off-the-shelf options are slim and expensive.

    Some versions of the NP435 had a synchronized first, and Novak offers the adapters to make it work.
    Adapting the Willys Jeep L & F 134 Engines to the Dodge NP435 Transmission
    It's a great transmission. My favorite truck trans.

    Even if you use one without synchronized first, second gear will have similar, or slightly lower ratio than your current trans; you can pull out in 2nd like your current 1st gear.

    The same can be said for the gearing and synchronization in a T-98 (synchronized in 2, 3, 4), which was a factory option behind the 134. IMO, the T-98 isn't half the transmission that the NP435 is, but it is more towards original equipment. Complete rebuilt units are available for a healthy price.
    Rebuilt T-98 for 4 cyl applications, $1650 | Herm The Overdrive Guy

    Any car-type transmissions - you're on your own as far as adapters go.
     
  3. Nov 13, 2018
    Siskiwit

    Siskiwit Member

    Northern Wisconsin
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    This rig will be used mainly for road hunting. I would rather not come to a complete stop to get into 1st. I’ll have to look into the t98 info. From what I’m hearing is the t98 has a granny low so 2nd would be a sort of 1st? If so I’ll be on the lookout for one. And yes behind the L 134 with Dana 18, dana27 Front and dana 44 rear geared to 5.38 with overdrive.
     
  4. Nov 13, 2018
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    I like the idea of a t98 as well - they were optional with the L and F134s. Of course, many want those for the granny first gear, but for everyday driving you use 2nd-4th and they are all synchronized. As always, its not just a bolt in and go kind of job. I would assume some modifications would have to made to the crossmember mount as well as some floor pan mods and maybe some driveshaft length changes?
     
  5. Nov 13, 2018
    Dave B

    Dave B Frankenjeep '67

    Northern Minnesota
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  6. Nov 13, 2018
    Siskiwit

    Siskiwit Member

    Northern Wisconsin
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    Thanks guys for All the input. All the fab work is no problem. If anybody has a line on one please let me know if it’s not too much to ask. I just did a Craig’s list search and seen one in Colorado. Ouch it’s pricey. The input looks long, its out of a ci5 with a v6 he says. does Novak sell all the parts needed to do this?
     
  7. Nov 13, 2018
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
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    T19, not terribly uncommon, same adapters as T18. Most versions have a 4 something 1st, there is a rare version with a lower 6-7 something 1st. Fully synchronized
     
  8. Nov 13, 2018
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Assuming this is the one you mention: T98 Transmission with adapter
    I just went and looked at it that one...he wants a lot of money for it as it comes with the v6 adapter which is rare. The t98 is out of the 62cj5 with a 4cyl. The long input is correct for the L134 I believe (?) and it has the correct 15/16" diameter 10spline input shaft for the 134. It has the 3 1/8 output for the small bore D18 which you would have (oh...and that is probably a concern with your T14 - its set-up for a 4" bore D18). I'd say he's unrealistic even with the v6 adapter - plus the adapter is not that desireable these days as its kind of long.
     
  9. Nov 13, 2018
    Siskiwit

    Siskiwit Member

    Northern Wisconsin
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    Just looked at Herms site from the link posted above. It’s a beast of a transmission but looks to be what will work. I have a Dana 18 4 inch hole transfer case that looks like it will fit also. It may test my fabrication skills but I like a challenge. I wonder how hard it will be to install a front pto winch with this setup. I really want the front pto setup.
     
  10. Nov 13, 2018
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    The T-14 used with the 225 has a long input shaft, which I expect would make things more difficult. The T-14 used with the 232 and 258 in the '72-75 Jeeps has a shorter input shaft, and might be easier. The main difference between a T-86 case and a T-90 case is the front pattern; both are square, but the T-14 pattern (same as the T-15) is larger, mostly in height as I recall. You could make an adapter to the F134 bell, matching the pattern of the bell to the transmission, and taking up the extra length of the input shaft.

    This seems to me a lot of trouble to go to get synchromesh in first gear. The T-90s I've driven seem to shift rather easily - all you have to remember is to not shift into first until you are fully stopped. I've found you can slip the clutch a bit and start off in second if you aren't stationary. Very seldom that you really need synchro in first.

    Realize that the truck 4-speeds - T-98 included - are all heavy, slow shifters, and a lot more work than a T-90.
     
  11. Nov 13, 2018
    Siskiwit

    Siskiwit Member

    Northern Wisconsin
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    I’m not opposed to making an adapter. The Willy’s is not going to be wheeled hard so the t14 would be ok. I need to keep the driveline short as possible cause I’m going with a Rancho 2 1/2 lift seeing I can’t find a 1” anymore. I’m going to check into the AMC input and adapter version first, I don’t need the heavy duty t 98 if I can avoid it. Thanks everyone.
     
  12. Nov 13, 2018
    jeep2003

    jeep2003 Well-Known Member

    Upstate NY
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    have you ever driven it before? I downshift mine while rolling its not that bad. Just saying you might best see how bad it is to live with before going through the trouble changing it out.
     
    45es likes this.
  13. Nov 13, 2018
    Siskiwit

    Siskiwit Member

    Northern Wisconsin
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    I just rebuilt a T90 for a M38 and seen the result of grinding it into 1st. I’ve driven my 3B and understand it. This is a pet project I want to do. Just want the best.
     
  14. Nov 14, 2018
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    You could also consider the T-150 3-speed that was the standard transmission for CJs 1976-79. The T-150 is a Ford passenger car 3-speed adapted to Jeep use by Tremec, with a 6-spline output and Texas pattern. It would bolt up to your Dana 18 using the output gear from that transfer case. One possible issue will be that, unlike the Borg-Warner 3-speeds, the T-150 uses a seal between the transfer case and transmission so no oil passes between them. The sealing surface for the seal is on the Dana 20 output gear, so you could maybe use a sealed bearing, or maybe it will be ok to let oil pass between. The T-150 has a Ford pattern on the engine end, and the stickout is about an inch shorter than the AMC-era T-14. There seem to be a lot of T-150s around, so maybe you could find one for evaluation without a big investment. And it's stronger than the T-14 ... though that's not an issue behind the F134, I'd presume.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
  15. Nov 14, 2018
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Fixt. ;)
     
    timgr likes this.
  16. Nov 14, 2018
    gunner

    gunner Member

    Washington state...
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    Learn how to double clutch.

    Zero cost
    Zero modifications
    Zero downtime
     
    3b a runnin and 47v6 like this.
  17. Nov 14, 2018
    Siskiwit

    Siskiwit Member

    Northern Wisconsin
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    You have a point.
     
  18. Nov 14, 2018
    iharding

    iharding Quitter

    Tacoma, WA
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    Heh. My T14 broke and I replaced it with a T90 and yeah, it’s doable but it’s not fun. I can’t wait to get that sweet synchro first back.
     
  19. Nov 14, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    Gunner beat me to it! Double clutching is not hard to learn at all with the T90. I had that skill well refined by the time I was 15. Just match ground speed and engine rpm.
    -Donny
     
  20. Nov 15, 2018
    Siskiwit

    Siskiwit Member

    Northern Wisconsin
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    I was on the CJ2A site asking questions and got some good info. I’ve decided to rebuild the T90 and D18 for now and run it till I gather enough parts and pieces to swap out. A question about the T150 mentioned above. I would probably still have to make an adapter from Ford pattern to Willy’s right. Also the t case I want to use is a big hole 4 inch that if I remember right is an odd 10 spline. This wouldn’t be usable I’m guessing. If all this is correct I think I’ll stay with fixing up the T14 in the meanwhile.
     
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