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Sm465/and V8 Clutch Won't Disengage

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by DrDanteIII, Apr 29, 2018.

  1. Apr 29, 2018
    DrDanteIII

    DrDanteIII All work and no jeep makes jack a dull boy Sponsor

    Milford NJ 08848
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    Hi guys. I finally got the am465 into my jeep, and got it started for the first time today. Everything seems ok, except the clutch won't disengage. I'm running a cable driven from a 70 dauntleas cj5, with through the floor peadal. (P.O. swapped on a 70 body )

    I've tried the full range of adjustment, and have drawn the arm back all the way. So its not and adjustment issue.

    How do I know that I got the arm in the throw out bearing correctly? What else could it be?
    I'm running a Novak bellhousing, pilot bushing, and adjustable throw out bearing. I thought I had the measurement right on the throwout bearing but maybe I'm off.

    Any other suggestions to try, I really don't want to pull the trans out of this if I don't have to.
     
  2. Apr 29, 2018
    Twin2

    Twin2 wasn't me Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    I had the bearing retainer . touching the hub of clutch disc
    wouldn't spin when clutch pedal was pressed
    maybe you can look with a inspection mirror
    when I first put the T18 in mine
    had to cut off about 1/4 inch
    I was thinking it had to do with the 225 flywheel
     
  3. Apr 29, 2018
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    1. Disc stuck to the flywheel (only applies if project sitting for lengthy amount of time)
    2. Disc hub to thick; hub bottoms out at end of splines on input shaft, before disc is free.
    3. Disc bent during aggressive installation of transmission.

    Sounds like all else is working correctly.

    My new LUK clutch suffered from #2 above; and it took 4 in/outs to figure it out (SM420)

    Good luck with your search for the problem.
     
  4. Apr 29, 2018
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    had to trim the retainer a little on my np435 too
     
  5. May 1, 2018
    DrDanteIII

    DrDanteIII All work and no jeep makes jack a dull boy Sponsor

    Milford NJ 08848
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    Pivot ball fell out during installation. I can't get it back in, and I suspect the throwout bearing is set too long.

    I think I'm going to bite the bullet and take it to a mechanic with a proper lift and trans jack. Bleh.
     
  6. May 2, 2018
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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    I had this exact problem with my SM420. I machined the hub to allow movement. All good now for a couple years. I had it in and out more than 4 times. No lift.
     
  7. May 2, 2018
    DrDanteIII

    DrDanteIII All work and no jeep makes jack a dull boy Sponsor

    Milford NJ 08848
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    Yeah, I got it in and out 2x to get the throwout bearing length set the first time.
    Used a chain hoist supposed by double 2x6's over the roll bar. I'd prefer not to do that again.
     
  8. May 2, 2018
    DrDanteIII

    DrDanteIII All work and no jeep makes jack a dull boy Sponsor

    Milford NJ 08848
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  9. May 2, 2018
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    I suggest you put it up on jack stands and use the Harbor Freight transmission jack. Here I am installing the T-18 in my J20:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    800 lb. Low Lift Transmission Jack

    Certainly no more than a shop would charge, and you'll have the jack when the job is done. Do it in the driveway if the Jeep is too tall for the garage.
     
  10. May 2, 2018
    DrDanteIII

    DrDanteIII All work and no jeep makes jack a dull boy Sponsor

    Milford NJ 08848
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    actually underbody clearance isn't an issue as I'm spring over. Jack max height is more of a concern.


    I'd rather get the jack and do it myself but, the biggest impediment I have now is that I need it to get done by May 14th, and I don't have the vacation time to work on it during the week. And then Kids, coaching t-ball, general homeowner duties, are in the way on the weekends.

    I've also been told by the powers that be to just get it going and get it out of the garage. I can't blame her, its been there 2 years at this point.
     
  11. May 2, 2018
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    You can drive it without a clutch ... BTDT.
     
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  12. May 2, 2018
    DrDanteIII

    DrDanteIII All work and no jeep makes jack a dull boy Sponsor

    Milford NJ 08848
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    Thats how it got on the trailer :D
     
  13. May 2, 2018
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

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    In my experience, unless you really know a guy, these kinds of jobs take a million bucks to get done and sometimes just don't get done right. No one cares about your project more than you...

    I used an engine hoist from the top side to pull up the transmission and a jack underneath to manipulate and of course some crow bars.

    Chain and no shifter tower using 2 bolts with that chain for the top cover to pull it up. I always work alone..
     
  14. May 2, 2018
    Twin2

    Twin2 wasn't me Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    I think that's most of us :susp:
    but I can get help when needed :D
     
  15. May 2, 2018
    DrDanteIII

    DrDanteIII All work and no jeep makes jack a dull boy Sponsor

    Milford NJ 08848
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    Yeah, I know what you are saying. Luckily I think I've got the troubleshooting part down, so hopefully I can limit the scope of work I'm paying for. The mechanic I'm going to is a personal friend, and he work always seems good.

    I also work alone on this stuff normally. I'm not happy about having to pay, but time is conspiring against me.
     
  16. May 2, 2018
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
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    It may sound stupid, but did you put the clutch on the right side.

    First time i did a clutch job on my jeep i put the clutch backward and i was never able to disengage the clutch....somebody ask my about if i put it backward and i learn that day that there is a side on a clutch.
     
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  17. May 14, 2018
    DrDanteIII

    DrDanteIII All work and no jeep makes jack a dull boy Sponsor

    Milford NJ 08848
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    update:
    Shop put 8 hours in. Still not working. They fixed a few minor things, definitely gave it the old college try.

    Seems like I'm not getting enough throw out of the clutch, aLast ditch effort tonight before I admit defeat and pull the trans back out: drill the clutch arm and move the cable closer to the pivot. Will give more pedal effort, but should improve range of travel.

    Even if I get it going and make it to the trail run this weekend, I'm still going to have to pull it back apart and get rid of the custom throw-out bearing that Novak said I needed for $80. Its too long even at its shortest setting and rides on the diaphragm constantly. With that I'm also going to try a difference pressure plate, hoping that its shorter than the current one.
     
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  18. May 14, 2018
    jzeber

    jzeber Sponsor Sponsor

    Morgan Hill, Ca
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    There are a ton of different length throw out bearings available for GM transmissions. I used either the longest available or next to longest. I believe the PN is Timken TMK 614037. I also bought the clutch fork from Novak and ended up using what came with the original trans.
    I found this too!
    Throwout bearing
     
  19. May 14, 2018
    DrDanteIII

    DrDanteIII All work and no jeep makes jack a dull boy Sponsor

    Milford NJ 08848
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    Well, I played with it. I can watch the diaphragm get depressed significantly, and it still doesn't disengage. That's even with it adjusted well past what a normal position would be. Something obviously incompatible in the clutch. I'm going to try a clutch kit for a t176, seems like some people have had luck with that.

    Either way, this weekend's trail ride is scrapped, and the trans has to come back out.

    Bleh.
     
  20. May 15, 2018
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

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    The splines in my input shift were not cut back far enough for the friction disk hub. The input shaft was jamming the disk hub into the flywheel. I can only assume this happened because of the additional thickness of the dauntless flywheel. I machined the hub to allow free movement. Been good ever since.
     

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