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Saginaw Steering And Pto Winch

Discussion in 'Winches' started by Steve's 70-5, May 15, 2020.

  1. May 15, 2020
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Member 2020 Sponsor

    Louisville, Ky
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
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    948
    Did a Saginaw Power Steering conversion on my Jeep. I had a PTO Winch. Did a mock up to see if the winch will fit and it does not. I have a Koening Winch.

    With the winch sitting on the mounting plate, it is touching the frame on one side and steering box on the other. Could probably grind the winch housing some so it fits but do not know how about that. The housing is cast aluminum and might weaken it too much.


    The lever to engage the winch is sitting on top of the Jeep frame. Might be able to cut it apart and weld it back together, but will take some engineering to do that.

    The drive shaft from the take-off to the winch would work. I did cut off the mount for the old Ross steering on the bottom of the radiator support.

    If I do the modifications to winch, and it does not work, the winch is ruined. Will look at it again, but it looks like it will be for sale and will put the money to good use.


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  2. May 16, 2020
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher

    Western MA
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    This is the very reason I did the hydro assist to ross steering. I figured the PTO winch wouldn't work with saginaw box. Time to put an 8274 on and call it a day!
     
  3. May 16, 2020
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs 2019 Sponsor

    At the foot of...
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    Seems to me I've read about shortening the drum on the winch...is that possible?
     
  4. May 16, 2020
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Member 2020 Sponsor

    Louisville, Ky
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
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    That would be possible, the ends are welded on the drum now. Would have to get new key ways cut into the shaft. I do have a extra parts winch I could do this on. More work. Do I just sell this and if I need a winch get a electric one. At this stage, the Jeep will be a grocery getter. This will be more work and I am tried of working on the Jeep. Wanting to drive it.

    The winch was just going to be show piece on the Jeep.
     
  5. May 16, 2020
    CHUGALUG

    CHUGALUG Member

    Silverton, OR
    Joined:
    May 11, 2019
    Messages:
    82
    Almost all electric winches will not fit between the Steering box and the frame. You will have to mount it up higher. I have run into the same problem with an electric they are all about 1-1.5" to wide. I am going to cut one down through the drum to make it fit better. I have seen an article maybe on Pirate 4x4 where some guy did just that he took 2" out of the drum and spreaders on his winch and while it did reduce the amount of line he could store on the winch it ended up working very well.
     
  6. May 16, 2020
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Member 2020 Sponsor

    Louisville, Ky
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
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    My steering box is down low, I can mount the winch on top of the frame.
     
  7. May 16, 2020
    termin8ed

    termin8ed I didn't do it Staff Member

    Mason, MI
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    Dec 22, 2002
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    Mine fits just fine dropped down low and still have a good 2" of room. Maybe I'm the exception, but i have no clearance issues with a 8274 warn
     
  8. May 16, 2020
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
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    11,573
    The front and back mount style (I forget the model #) Koenig will work with power steering. It has to be offset to the passenger side but works. I’ve had mine on for well over 20 years with no problems.
     
  9. May 16, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Feb 9, 2018
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    My dad has the narrower spool Ramsey PTO winch on his flatfender with Sagninaw steering.
     
  10. May 17, 2020
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher

    Western MA
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    Yes, the 8274 does fit because of its upright design.
     
  11. May 17, 2020
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb 2020 Sponsor

    Jasper Georgia
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    Just a thought, keep in mind I am not familiar with those winches at all. and just judging from the photos maybe you could completely remove the entire right shaft support assy and start with a new pillow block bearing sitting on top of the right side frame rail and box and strengthen the frame. This mod might move the entire winch too far to the right for the PTO shaft to still clear ??? Looks like the clutch leaver needs a reposition/rework any way. Just wondering if the right front tire might rub it when cut far left. Just my 1 cents worth.
     
  12. May 18, 2020
    Steamboat Willys

    Steamboat Willys Member 2020 Sponsor

    Paddock Lake, WI
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    Do you have any pictures you can post?
     
  13. May 18, 2020
    Siskiwit

    Siskiwit New Member

    Northern Wisconsin
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    Aug 13, 2016
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    I have been pondering on this conundrum for quite some time on a Cj2a. Seems a Toyota or corvette manual box is the only options. The ratios aren’t as good.
     
  14. May 18, 2020
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Sep 23, 2002
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    I have a Firebird Saginaw power steering gear on my ‘59 CJ-5. The gear is actually angled and not mounted parallel to the frame rail because of the early Wagoneer/PU mount I used. This reduces clearance even further and the winch is tight but still fits.
     
  15. May 18, 2020
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    I posted some years ago as have others. This is not new. My pics are all on Photobucket and I can’t retrieve them. Having issues resizing the ones I’ve taken Recently so can’t post due to size restrictions.
     
  16. May 21, 2020
    BadGoat

    BadGoat How High Can You Climb?

    St Croix, USVI
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    Apr 27, 2017
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    Go electric and get on with using it. I completely get the desire to be done. Their's nothing wrong with electric winches. And while a PTO winch has a longer duty cycle then an electric, it's useless if you kill the engine. If you really want an engine driven winch, go with a hydraulic set up.

    Mike
     
  17. May 21, 2020
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe pusher

    Maryland
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    Mar 23, 2008
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    Non Saginaw PS Solution
    99-04 Grand Cherokee pretty fast box. I have a small body lift so the shaft slips under.
     
  18. May 21, 2020
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    I respectfully disagree.
    Nothing wrong with electric or hydraulic winches but they have their downfalls too. My pto winch will outpull any comparable electric or hydraulic winch. It won’t overheat, I have control over winch speeds, has minimal maintenance, and with proper maintenance will outlast any other style of winch. I’ve proven this time and again in real world situations in Search and Rescue.
    My Koenig winches have custom input shafts with a hex sticking out so if I have to I can use a ratchet or hand crank to turn it for recovery. Slow but still doable.
    Having said all that, a QUALITY electric winch and well setup electrical system will do well by he vast majority of folks out there. Not a fan of hydraulic except on tow trucks and industrial equipment.
     
    garage gnome likes this.
  19. May 21, 2020
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher

    Western MA
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    Yes, I'd have to agree with Nick. I have seen electric ones fail countless times due to sloppy wiring, poor connections, weak charging systems, ect. I would hope that if you are out wheeling, the engine would be reliable and there would be little chance of it dying. At first, I was skeptical of wheeling with a PTO winch, thinking it was going to be slow and cumbersome. But I have come to love it and it will pull anything as long as I have my jeep anchored to a tree. To be honest, I think a PTO winch is a better unit than electric. Don't get me wrong, the 8274 Warn is a nice winch and I plan on using one in my next build.

    But as the OP said, the winch would be more for looks than anything else. So if thats the case, an old Bellview or upright Warn would still look right at home on his jeep. (y)
     
    termin8ed likes this.
  20. May 22, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    A PTO winch also lets you stop/start super smooth by slipping the clutch. Very handy when using the A-frame on the front of my Dad's flatfender to pick up and move heavy things around the yard.

    Electric winches are pretty jerky when being used as a hoist.
     

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