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Saginaw Power Steering (pics) Please Add Yours!

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Mcruff, Aug 5, 2005.

  1. Jan 31, 2010
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,349
    Saginaw steering and fenderwell headers such as Hedmans are a non issue. Mine has had fenderwell headers on it for the 18 years I have owned it and they are not even close to the saginaw swap I did 6 years ago. I can't speak for the block hugger headers though.
     
  2. May 16, 2010
    dnb71R2

    dnb71R2 SuperDave 2023 Sponsor

    Grand Mesa, CO
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,320
    I need to relocate my steering box for a longer pitman arm, and I'm getting ready to install a Dana 30.

    My power Saginaw conversion was done in the 80's. The PO, who I purchased the Jeep from, never had any issues with this conversion, and drove it for 17 years with stock tires. I've driven it for 4 years with 33" tires and have no complaints with performance or steering manners. Apparently, this conversion is unusual since it retains the forward dump exhaust manifold. The 3-bolt box is mounted 3 1/2" inboard of the frame rail with some gusseted 3/8" plate.

    My primary goal is to replace a homemade 4 1/2" long pitman arm which, I know, should have never been used.

    My secondary goals are to use a 4-bolt box and clean up the existing installation like weld the standoff spacers and radius all sharp corners.

    The shortest arm I can find is 5" long, so I need to move my steering box forward 2" - 3". It appears the drag link attach point on the Dana 30 is 2" forward of the same point on my Dana 27. I will re-evaluate this distance after the Dana 30 is bolted up.

    Most Saginaw conversions I've seen, at this site, have the box mounted flat, that is, with the input/steering shaft mounted parallel to the ground (sector shaft perpendicular to the ground). Factory mounted boxes are at an angle (about 15*) with the input shaft pointed slightly upwards. I wonder why so many folks have success with flat mounted boxes when there must be a reason the factory mounts them at an angle. Typical aftermarket brackets mount these boxes at an angle. Project Jeep CJ-7 - HIGH PERFORMANCE STEERING GEAR & PUMP INSTALL

    I can use my existing upper box bolt location and rotate the box down & forward for a flat mount with relative ease. This placement may gain the clearance I need. However, I'm hesitant to mount this box at a different angle, since it's working well now.

    If I maintain the same box angle and move it straight forward, I have to extend my mounting surface at least 2". Is it suitable to weld on an extension plate to the inside of my existing plate? This extension would have two vertical weld beads, one inboard and one outboard. It would then pick up the two forward box bolt mounting locations.

    I'm looking for ideas with regard to positioning this box for a longer pitman arm. If the placement requires lengthening the mounting surface, then I'm also interested in the best way to do that.

    I have temporarily removed the box bolts and slid the box forward to assure enough overlap exists in the telescoping shaft, and to check clearance with the motor mount, hoses, etc.

    I'm open to other ideas, because that's what this site is all about! Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  3. May 17, 2010
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    8,513
    the short arm might hurt your turning radius.
    the stock Jeep arm is about 6-3/4".
    I'd remount the box entirely and start over
    most go low to avoid either the xmember or the motor mount
    here of course, your exhaust manifold will come into play as well.
     
  4. May 17, 2010
    bkd

    bkd Moderator Supreme Staff Member 2022 Sponsor

    K-Town Tenn.
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,294
    yep....I had a short pitman arm when I first did my saggy swap, really limited my overall turning radius. Went to a wrecking yard and pulled a longer unit and had spring to spring turning ability
    Something to take into consideration as you work through a solution
    Jim
    ps....have you had someone turn the wheels while you looked closely at the box/mount?????.......think I'd be worried a bit about the amount of movement/torque with your existing setup
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2010
  5. May 17, 2010
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,349
    When I mount them they are not flat but they also don't have much tilt maybe 2-3*. But mine sits way higher than yours appears to. The upper 2 bolts on my box go thru the upper 1/2 of the frame rail, my steering box only hangs 2 7/8" below the frame rail. For mine to hit something the front hanger is gonna already be gone. My frame mount is welded to the side of the frame after its boxed in with 3/16" thick plate, the spud shaft allows my box to be mounted right out in front. The front of the steering box (round end cap) is 5" from the end of the frame horn. Most all of my box is visible except the hoses, you can actually see them but they go up under and behind the grill frame. Your looks to have a major leverage advantage for the box to twist the frame. I also mounted a steering box brace on mine to gusset it to the other frame rail.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2010
  6. May 20, 2010
    dnb71R2

    dnb71R2 SuperDave 2023 Sponsor

    Grand Mesa, CO
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,320
    Thanks for the comments and ideas.
    My steering bracket is tied into the front cross member from the frame to the grill mount, which reduces twisting on the frame. The winch cross member stabilizes that as well.
    I've measured several aspects of my steering components the past couple days. My 3-turn box has to go along with the rag joint steering shaft.
    I will have to use a 4 turn box and a steering shaft with U-joints at each end, which is probably common for this mod.
    The Dana 30 drag link needs almost 9" of liner movement. The factory 6.5+" pitman arm just barely does the job.
    I don't see how those running a 5" or 5.5" arm are getting a full range of movement with a Dana 30.

    2021-10-13 UPDATE with pix.
    The 'before' pix were lost with the Photobucket fiasco. I have added a few current pix, but it's tough to see around the bumper and winch plate.

    Looking down; 1/4" lateral gusset between frame and crossmember.
    [​IMG]
    Looking aft; vertical plate with gussets.
    [​IMG]
    Looking diagonally up & aft to see steering shaft and stock exhaust pipe location.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  7. May 21, 2010
    del

    del New Member

    yakima, wa
    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    24
    [​IMG]
    Here is my beginnings for the swap. The pitman arm appears to be the wrong gender. Can I replace it (pitman arm) with a jeep part? It is from an 85 s-10 blazer with power steering.

    del
     
  8. May 21, 2010
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,349
    The pitman arm can be replaced. Not sure what model but they are pretty universal for them ost part.
     
  9. May 27, 2010
    '72CJ5

    '72CJ5 Member

    Modesto,...
    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    980
    There is a '83 I beleive grand wagoneer sitting at my usual wrecking yard with a 360 and was wondering if I could just snag all the stuff from that to bolt into my '72 cj5. I havn't decided if I want to change columns yet or just keep the original one and swap in a small wheel. Also, do they make some sort of adapter or somthing so you can mount a smaller wheel to the original column?
     
  10. Jun 28, 2010
    JeepinJ

    JeepinJ Member

    Randolph, VT
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    60
    Has anyone done a manual saginaw set up with an Lhead that has a header? i'm not sure what will actually fit. I do not want to ditch the header since I built it myself and love it...just thinking about a steering upgrade.
     
  11. Jun 29, 2010
    Long&Low

    Long&Low Active Member

    Geauga County, OH
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,212
    I'm gonna be adding a manual box to my '68 Fhead. I'm using a intermediate manual box, and the intermediate steering shaft from an ICJ5. I'm also using a postal column. I picked up a YJ manual pitman arm that will connect to the box. I need to ream out the pitman arm to accept my tie rod end. th edraw back to the YJ arm is that it has a drop to it and my CJ5 has no lift, so I may need to mount the box up a little bit or ream it out and mount the drag link from above instead of below. Not quite in the mock up stage yet.
     
  12. Jul 28, 2010
    PieLut

    PieLut Member

    Glendale, Arizona
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
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    464
    Here is my set up
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And before I welded it
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Jul 29, 2010
    '72CJ5

    '72CJ5 Member

    Modesto,...
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    May 12, 2010
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    Will the saginaw box bolt up in the original box's place or do you need to make a plate like that?
     
  14. Aug 1, 2010
    Long&Low

    Long&Low Active Member

    Geauga County, OH
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
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    1,212
    OK, while not power steering it is a manual Saginaw box from a later CJ5. The pitman arm is off a YJ, a manual pitman arm. I need to send the arm out to get it reamed larger for the drag link end I'm using.

    Couple of notes, the YJ pitman arm has a godo 3" drop to it, and that's not pictures in the above. So i had to mounte the box higher up on the fram horn, there is good and bad to that. the good is the box will be pretty protected from rocks and trail debris, the bad is I had to notch theheck of out of the radiator support. I plated and weld that notch, but the rear front end strength / cross member will be the winch plate and front bumper. I plated both sides of the frame with stacked 1/8" and 3/16" plate, plus below the frame I added a five inch long 2"x2" box tube for the lower two holes. It looks pretty sturdy.

    When I get the drag link mounted and the pitman arm back i'll update the pics.

    All three mounting bolts are in, one is down low next to the spring hanger.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Aug 3, 2010
    Kaotic55

    Kaotic55 Colorado Kid

    Colorado
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
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    24
    Why not lift it some?
     
  16. Aug 3, 2010
    Long&Low

    Long&Low Active Member

    Geauga County, OH
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
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    It is lifted some, I think about 2.5", I won't know for sure till I fit some tires on it and get a good looksee. I'm betting and by measuring that'll it fit 33" with ease.
     
  17. Aug 3, 2010
    Kaotic55

    Kaotic55 Colorado Kid

    Colorado
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
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    Nice
     
  18. Sep 9, 2010
    Brem10mm

    Brem10mm Member

    Near Ames, IA
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    96
    Previous owner did a manual saginaw swap on my 1970 cj5 and installed a 283 Chevy engine (sbc) with fender well headers. After setting and rusting for 9 years the headers have holes in them and need replaced. Plus they really did a hatchet job on cutting holes in the fenders for the headers to get through. I would like to replace the fenders and install a factory sbc exhaust manifold but clearing the steering rod going to the box is an issue.

    There's a lot of different factory sbc exhaust manifolds made over the years and I was wondering if anyone found one that would work and clear the steering rod. I tried a set of "rams horn" manifolds last night and they won't work.
     
  19. Oct 4, 2010
    del

    del New Member

    yakima, wa
    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    24
    Got my steering box tacked in, what do you think?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    A side note military and CJ tie rods have different threads.

    Parts list;
    steering box 85 s10 (3 bolt)
    tie rods 79 DJ, modified
    front cross member 85 s10 auto transmission cross member upside down and shortened
    pitman arm 91 Cherokee

    del
     
  20. Oct 14, 2010
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member

    Los Alamos, NM
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    8,360
    The box Mcruff used (pics in first post) he said was from a '74 Pontiac Catalina or Grand Prix. I did a little looking around, and here's what I came up with for that box..

    Rock Auto's A1 Cardone part # 27-6537
    Autozone's A1 Cardone part # 6537
    NAPA part # 88277088

    4 bolt mounting
    3 1/2- 4 1/4 turns lock to lock
    line thread sizes 11/16X18 & 5/8X18
    input shaft size 13/16
    output shaft size 1 1/4

    Applications including, but not limited to-
    roughly 1969 or 70 through 1976 Chevy Caprice, Impala, El Camino, Buick Century, Le Sabre, Olds Cutlass, Pontiac Grand Prix, Catalina

    Most of these list this # for W/O air conditioning.

    1972-1976 Jeep J10, Wagoneer

    For you purists, this box is also a Jeep part..:D
    Thought this might be useful. I intend on using this box myself.
     
    Buildflycrash likes this.
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