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Roll Bar Project.

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by millennium falcon, Feb 17, 2019.

  1. Feb 27, 2019
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    I built my cage to fit under my rag top as well. Just a word of caution - HREW is not approved by governing bodies for roll cages for a reason. I've seen several that have split and failed on impacts over the years and why I use DOM on my stuff. I also build and refit cages for some of the race groups here in town - just watch the stuff.
     
  2. Feb 27, 2019
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Just being devils advocate here...

    I read a debate a few years ago on Pirate about single-use "safety bars" vs. impervious "rollover protection," and it was interesting.

    If a cage saves your life, but gets destroyed while doing its job, wouldn't it still have the same value to its owner?

    I personally think just as a jeep can be built for its purpose, so can a cage. Anything is better than nothing, and seeing that the stock rollbars were (and AFAIK, still are to this day) welded seam tubing, we're seeing an example here that is more than double the strength over stock, plus tied into the frame. Would it survive a barrel roll down a mountainside? Probably not, but I'd be willing to bet it will keep its occupants perfectly safe in a trailside flop or low-speed roll.

    I walked away with only a minor injury from a flipped 2a with no rollbar where the wimpy stock windshield frame was strong enough to keep the jeep from flipping landing on top of me. Ideal? Not at all. But it worked.
     
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  3. Feb 27, 2019
    millennium falcon

    millennium falcon Member

    Central PA
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    As ITLKSEZ said this is simply my attempt to make my Jeep slightly safer than stock. This Jeep will never see any kind of competition, race......probably not even an off road park. I just wanted some passenger protection if it flops over in the woods or something similar. I talked to the guys at the machine shop when I order the tubing. They build all kinds of things there for many different industries. They told me this tubing would be fine for this application. It’s not a nascar. Haha! I am aware that the cage will likely get messed up in a rollover but if I’m alive to get mad about that then I guess it worked. Haha! That being said I’ve beem driving Jeeps for 15 years with no cage or even a roll bar so this will be somewhat of an improvement.
     
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  4. Feb 27, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Aggressively average

    NW Arkansas
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    Mar 2, 2017
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    I have often wondered to what degree a roll bar or cage can be a self-fulfilling prophecy? Meaning, having the cage might give one the confidence to try something they normally wouldn't resulting in them actually needing the cage.
     
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  5. Feb 27, 2019
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    In either case without suggesting material types , design or application.........I think it's imperative for the folks that are doing the project who are ultimately the most at risk to fully understand the limits of said materials along with the proper design & welding characteristics of the structure and attaching points to allow for there maximum protection regardless of what others do.
     
  6. Feb 28, 2019
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    Jul 30, 2003
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    I don't see that as an issue.
    It's just another safety item.
     
  7. Feb 28, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Aggressively average

    NW Arkansas
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    Mar 2, 2017
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    683
    I'm gonna guess governing bodies frown on angle iron cages? :n:

    From a local CL ad...

     
    tripilio, jpflat2a and ITLKSEZ like this.
  8. Feb 28, 2019
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Hahaha!!
    I had an angle iron roll bar in my go-cart as a kid. Saved me some injuries a few times!
     
  9. Mar 1, 2019
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Its all up to the person with the butt in the seat IMOP - I'm just saying that I have seen several HREW cage components fail. Fail in my book is the occupants were injured - don't give a rats a$$ about look or if it's broke at the end as even DOM tube cages are usually replaced or fixed after an incident.

    I agree, anything is better than nothing. Just understand your limits on what you build.
     
    47v6 likes this.
  10. Mar 2, 2019
    millennium falcon

    millennium falcon Member

    Central PA
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    Let’s all just simmer down.... I probably should have mentioned...this cage is just for looks. It is made of electrical conduit after all.
     
    Rich M., Norcal69 and 47v6 like this.
  11. Mar 2, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    DOM vs HREW Article

    says DOM is over 60% stronger than DOM
    http://4xi.biz/4xi/DOM.V.HREW/HREW_vs_DOM_tube_test.pdf

    From my perspective, I think that for what Seth is doing, or for what I would be doing, HREW would suit our purposes just fine. Basically we are driving grocery getter, ice cream run fun jeeps. The cage is there to add some protection from an improbable flop over or a possible fender bender.

    Both of these articles are pretty clear about DOM being stronger than HREW, but they both state that unless you're riding rocks or big drop offs, HREW is fine. we could also go into CrMo debates but we aren't building an airframe or a racer and that requires specific processes to achieve the strength that brittle CrMo needs.

    The question also should be about the weld techniques. HREW vs DOM is just fine and clearly stated, but what about the skill of the weldor, the accuracy of the process, the copes and how well they were done. None of it matters if the weldor is not very skilled.

    DOM isn't magic if the welds are garbage and may make the strength differences between DOM vs HREW a moot point. Unless you're going to do destructive testing or have access to an X-ray tester, how would you know the difference anyway?

    There is always the story about the old weldor who sees the new guy making a beautiful perfect weld, compare it to the old guys and watch that beautiful weld fail under testing.

    There are more factors than just HREW vs DOM material strengths. Design, engineer and build your project with the expected stresses in mind and remember try not to exceed it. We aren't dropping these things out of airplanes, driving them off cliffs in Colorado or expecting them to go 200 mph.

    No offense to anyone, but engineer to your specs.
     
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  12. Mar 6, 2019
    millennium falcon

    millennium falcon Member

    Central PA
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    Finished the Cage supports on the driver side. Its 9 degrees here today.... looks like warmer weather next week so it will have to wait.

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  13. Mar 6, 2019
    BadGoat

    BadGoat How High Can You Climb?

    Northern Virginia
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    Apr 27, 2017
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    Tieing the cage into the frame is always a good idea and your workmanship looks good. Did you use any sort of flexible material between the bottom and top mounts, or is the cage hard bolted to the sandwiching plates? If hard mounted, do you have rubber body mounts or is your tub also hard mounted? I'd worry that if the frame tie-ins are the only place hard mounted between the body and the frame, then these contact points will work harden the sheet steel on the body and likely damage it as the rest of the tub tries to move around on it's rubber mounts.

    Mike
     
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  14. Mar 6, 2019
    millennium falcon

    millennium falcon Member

    Central PA
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    I fully expect the jeep body to catch fire because off the cage.... that's better than being dead.
     
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  15. Mar 6, 2019
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    Hate to Hijack but I'm following/learning here. Can you show us a good solution to the Hard VS Body Mount issue?
     
  16. Mar 6, 2019
    millennium falcon

    millennium falcon Member

    Central PA
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    My body is basically hardmounted so I’m not too worried about it. There are always compromises....
     
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  17. Mar 6, 2019
    BadGoat

    BadGoat How High Can You Climb?

    Northern Virginia
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    If his body is hard mounted it’s really a non issue. A common solution is to use a bushing between the sandwich plate and the frame tie in. Sorry for the hijack.

    Mike

     
  18. Mar 6, 2019
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    I'm just happy you didn't build your cage out of black pipe. :D:poke:
     
  19. Mar 12, 2019
    millennium falcon

    millennium falcon Member

    Central PA
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    Finally done!



    Last time seeing it with no cage/top..

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    This is the material I used on my body mounts so I added one to between the tub and cage.... I know metal on metal is best but now everything has the same amount of movement. And with 12 grade 8 3/8" bolts it should be fine.

    Its 1/8" PVC rubber. Very durable, doesnt compress like regular rubber.

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  20. Mar 12, 2019
    62CheepJeep

    62CheepJeep Member

    Spartanburg SC
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    Looks great nice work.
     
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