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Ok, Few More Questions

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Tree cutter 08, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. May 1, 2019
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member

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    Refresh my memory. Manual or power steering?

    Does it seem inclined to dive to one side more than the other?

    As far as you know is this the original steering gear? Or could it be that a 76+ gear was installed?
     
  2. May 1, 2019
    Tree cutter 08

    Tree cutter 08 Member

    Cleveland ga
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    Have no idea on the gear box. I do know it has a Ford pump. It drives straight and dosentd pull. Just seems to dark with small steering corrections. Very very little play in the steering.
     
  3. May 1, 2019
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Alignment? Properly aligned steering will self-center, even "hands-off."
     
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  4. May 1, 2019
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member

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    Ok, seems like it could be a steering box with inappropriately quick ratio for a short wheelbase machine.

    Another occasional mistake is putting a 76+ gearbox into an earlier jeep. Those boxes bolted to an angled frame and had progressive ratio. Slow in center, quicker as you move off center. Installed in a straight frame, the steering is at rest and centered out of the slow gear ratio part if the box. So steers like a demon to the left (but reaches full lock too soon), and lazy steering to the right.
     
  5. May 1, 2019
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    The parts book says they use 9 on a '74-75 and 12 on '76 and newer. There are 14 holes, so there must be some holes that are used by the ignition wire holders (or other devices), and this takes the place of the washers for some holes. It seems highly unlikely that Jeep would have used different length bolts, or different depth holes, for some of the cover bolts - that would be a recipe for an assembly and/or service problem, and I expect it would have increased the costs too.
     
  6. May 1, 2019
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

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    The dipstick has a tab on my 304 there’s one.
     
  7. May 1, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Aggressively average

    NW Arkansas
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    As to the oil leaks, good to make sure your PCV is working and/or crankcase vented. Sometimes those get capped off and the crankcase pressure pushes oil out wherever it can find a path.
     
  8. May 1, 2019
    Tree cutter 08

    Tree cutter 08 Member

    Cleveland ga
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    Getting tough to figure out. I can crank and run out the driveway and back and oil is dripping from running out around the back of the driver side head gasket and slower front passenger side head seam. I can clean everything off and start it right back up in the shop and barely get a seap. Hold at 2 k rpms and idle back and forth and won't hardly leak. That would explain the no leaks during break in. My next thought is it pooling around the front and back intake and running down the edge of the seams? Just can't see good enough to say for sure. Anybody ever run into this?
     
  9. May 1, 2019
    Brian Beck

    Brian Beck New Member

    Colorado Springs
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    For the oil leak, I missed they type of engine you have, just saw V8. Some blocks/heads came with mounting bracket holes that would go into the oil journals and would leak if not plugged. Example would be the SBC when GM added a smog pump bracket hole that penetrated where the fuel pump push rod is and would leak. You also mentioned you have 80psi while driving? Do you have a high pressure oil pump? The 80psi seems high, especially if you're running a stock or even high volume oil pump.

    Someone mentioned crankcase venting. Even if you have a working PVC valve, if you have anything in the engine that would increase the crankcase pressure, large cam, high volume oil pump, etc. You need more venting. If you haven't already, put some venting caps on the valve covers.

    Before yanking heads off, do a bleed down test on the cylinders to see if you have a bad head or gasket. You can generally rent a compression tester from local parts shops for free. Valve covers are generally the culprit though. Not sure what type of valve covers you have, but the cheap ones can permanently warp or were never flat to begin with. I have sealed wavy valve covers with large amounts of silicone though. Not recommending that and if you ever pull them off, you'll be cleaning them for hours to get it all off. I've even did a layout of silicone on the head, cork gasket and another layer of silicone on the valve cover. Again not recommended, but it worked to stop the oil.
     
  10. May 1, 2019
    Tree cutter 08

    Tree cutter 08 Member

    Cleveland ga
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    Been running some more. Up and down driveway and sat under with a light stairing for last 20 mins. I see tiny oil bubbles come and go along the passenger side. Not alot but they are there. Talked to the engine shop, they installed aftermarket oil pump which doesn't have oil relif they said. I haven't seen anything higher than 90 or lower than 20. Seems to fluctuate a good bit. Thought I had this thing done after working on it last 3 months everyday and having engine shop rebuild engine. I remember now why I just buy new stuff now days. No matter how much time and money you spend on old stuff you still constantly having to tinker with it.
     
  11. May 1, 2019
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member

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    Which relief did they eliminate? The spring and plunger under the 7/8" plug on the side of the filter housing? Or the troublesome little bugger that is exposed when you spin off the filter? I hope the latter. And maybe they put in a stiffer spring in the former. But yeah, 80 psi seems too much.
     
  12. May 1, 2019
    Tree cutter 08

    Tree cutter 08 Member

    Cleveland ga
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    Not sure about that. I'm learning more about these amc engines by the hour. I wasn't planning or expecting to have to deal with all this. I pulled the intake and defiantly no leaks there. I can see the problem spots and why they are leaking where they are. I'm gonna pull the heads tommrow evening and check them to see what's going on. I feel confident that's the problem. Just not sure why. Been reading a lot about recent rebuilds running high oil pressure. Is there a con to hitting 80 psi?
     
  13. May 2, 2019
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member

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    The filter housings have a pressure regulating spring that establishes max pressure. Different than a filter bypass. Both exist inside the filter housing. AMC V8 are odd in that they put the filter bypass inside the housing instead of inside the filter.

    Running high pressure means more loading on your pump gears. The pump gear shaft runs through your precious timing cover, so more load means more wear. It also translates to more load on your cam gear amd distributor gear. And side-loading on distributor shaft as well. Both of those shafts (dist andnoil pump) are sort of cantilevered out in space so excess side loading will push them. And the engine doesnt need 80 psi.

    I wouldnt freak out over it, but there is no reason for doing it except "more is better", which it isnt.
     
  14. May 2, 2019
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    By the old rule-of-thumb of 10 psi for every 1000 RPM, you are accommodating an 8000 RPM engine speed. Maybe for a Trans Am 304, but street engines are pretty much wound out at 4500... they will go faster but the valves will float and pushrods bend and stuff like that. Oil filter canisters can explode if fed too much pressure. And you are spending engine power to make the excess pressure.
     
  15. May 2, 2019
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    Very high oil pressure, like 80 psi, is not good for your Jeep engine. As Chilly mentioned, the distributor gear is what is driving the pump, and that high of pressure put a LOT of unneccessary force on the gear, distributor, and oil pump.
    Find out why the pressure is not bleeding off to 45-55 psi as the relief should be doing.
    -Donny
     
  16. May 2, 2019
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member

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    Shop likely installed a higher pressure spring, and/or higher volume pump gear set (does such a thing exist for AMC V8?). I have a stock used spring I can send you if you would like to see if/how it changes pressure.
     
  17. May 3, 2019
    Tree cutter 08

    Tree cutter 08 Member

    Cleveland ga
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    I might take you up on that! I'll send you my address. Thanks! Last time I drove it for the longest time frame oil pressure stayed in the 40 to 60 range when warm and driving. At idle it would be in the 20 to 30 range. Seem to only hit 80 when cold .
     
  18. May 4, 2019
    Tree cutter 08

    Tree cutter 08 Member

    Cleveland ga
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    Ok, what's y'all's thoughts? I've got a leak here and on on the opposite corner of head. The lip that sticks out above the freeze plug blocks visibility. I can say for sure oil is visible along the seam on the outside of the out drain in the heads. Same place front and back. Reckon it's seaping through the head there or at the corner of the intake? I've got a set of Edelbrock 7213 gaskets and a valley pan gasket that will be here Monday. Which should I use? Edelbrock suggest the valley pan but I've read several that use the other type gaskets. Engine shop just used the regular intake gaskets and they sealed except for maybe the corners where the rtv goes. I never could see it leaking at the corners but could just below along the head gasket.
     

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  19. May 6, 2019
    Tree cutter 08

    Tree cutter 08 Member

    Cleveland ga
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    We'll turns out it was the intake leaking. Gave it a little test run and both heads appear to still be dry. I do still have another leak. You oul still dripping out between the motor and tranny. Rear main? Ridiculous to pay 3500 bucks to have motor completely rebuilt and have 3 different leaks? Was my expectations to high?
     
  20. May 30, 2019
    Tree cutter 08

    Tree cutter 08 Member

    Cleveland ga
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    Thought I'd update since I got a few hundred miles on it now. Had a vibration and got that taken care of by removing the rear shims. That helped the handling and driving alot. After driving a good bit I decided it could still do better. I measured caster as some here suggested and came up with 0. I ordered and installed 6 degree shims and wowl I don't understand why cj5s have such a bad rap when it comes to handling and driving. This thing drives and handles great now. I would compare it to my regular cab tacoma with just a tad of a float feeling. 70mph is no problem now. Thanks for all the advice and tips!
     
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