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Novak Clutch

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by shaun, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. Mar 5, 2021
    shaun

    shaun Member

    Lebanon, Ohio
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    TC was disengaged and in H. (Twin stick)
     
  2. Mar 5, 2021
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Per Scott's request, I'll be crawling under my '51 this weekend and do some measurements and pics for you guys. Its the rig I have the Novak Push Cyl installed on with the Chevy Arm.

    I'll post results here.
     
    Buildflycrash likes this.
  3. Mar 5, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    If you pull the coil wire (so it doesn't start), put it in 1st or reverse, and turn the key, does the Jeep move?
     
  4. Mar 6, 2021
    shaun

    shaun Member

    Lebanon, Ohio
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    I done last time besides pulling the coil wire and it wanted to move. Haven’t done it since I replaced pilot bushing and torque to spec. Will be at work till Monday morning. I will be in garage then and can check
     
  5. Mar 6, 2021
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    It’s going to be awesome.
     
  6. Mar 6, 2021
    shaun

    shaun Member

    Lebanon, Ohio
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    So when I do this what will it tell me? If it moves? I just don’t know if I’m getting enough bearing travel... when I move the fork my hand it’s just about touching the pressure plate so I would think 1” movement should be enough but apparently it’s not
     
  7. Mar 6, 2021
    shaun

    shaun Member

    Lebanon, Ohio
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    Last time I did it and it jumped forward, the shifter was stuck so I had to push jeep back to disengage shifter. Was told the pilot bushing and pressure plate was too tight. So that’s fixed now to torque spec. Think like 30psf but mine is at about 31 lbs sf. According to the service book I have.
     
  8. Mar 6, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Well, if it's not touching, then the clutch should be fully engaged. This means it should move or kill the engine when you put it in 2nd or 3rd and let up on the clutch. It doesn't make sense it's not moving when you have the engine running and put it into 2nd/3rd. The key/no coil is just to verify the clutch is engaged when the pedal is not pushed in.

    Not being able to shift into 1st or reverse if the clutch isn't fully disengaging isn't surprising since they have no synchos. Being able to get it into 2nd or 3rd but the Jeep not moving when letting up on the clutch is surprising. This implies a disconnect somewhere in the system. Possibilities:
    1. It's not all the way into 2nd or 3rd. You might have moved the collar over the synchro, but not engaged the gear so it feels like it went into gear when it didn't.
    2. Transfer case in neutral.
    3. Something broken in the drivetrain.
    It's good to eliminate those possibilities. From the symptoms, it almost has to be #1. Hopefully that's the case because it implies nothing else is wrong and the clutch isn't getting enough travel.

    I don't know how much travel the clutch requires. You might try over-traveling the clutch arm with a ratchet strap to see if will disengage with more travel. If that's the case, you can shorten the clutch arm, find a bigger master cylinder, or change the pedal ratio to the master cylinder to get more travel at the throwout bearing.
     
  9. Mar 6, 2021
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    The reason I’m following this topic so closely is I’m installing the Novak stuff now as well. It seemed the problem with mine (and yours) is there is not enough travel on the fork. I was testing mine and couldn’t get it into gear. Lots of grinding is about all.

    So just now I took a ratchet strap and pulled the fork all the way back.


    [​IMG]

    Jumped in started her up and shifted into all gears no problem. Definitely confirms my theory above (I hope).

    Put a tape on it for reference and now I just need a little help with someone stomping on the clutch I’ll measure and maybe making the pushrod longer???

    [​IMG]


    .
     
    Fireball likes this.
  10. Mar 6, 2021
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I may have solved mine. Watch this....



    I bled using this technique and adjusted my pushrod so I was 1.5” in from the full travel I measured with the ratchet strap. Test on jack stands was successful. Putting wheels on next.
     
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  11. Mar 6, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    This is a very good point, if it's not fully bled, you will be getting less travel at the slave cylinder than the master cylinder.
     
  12. Mar 6, 2021
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Yes - Proper bleeding is critical for it to work. Something I fought with the first hydro clutch I put in.

    To what you guys asked me. This is the Novak Hydro Push Slave on the 51. It's with an SM465 setup.

    Base Pic of it installed.

    Tape on it with the clutch in 'drive' position - not pushed in.

    Tape on it with my wife pushing it to engage the clutch.

    You can see about 1.5" of travel with the clutch engaged.
     
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  13. Mar 6, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Now there is good data!
     
  14. Mar 6, 2021
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Wheels on and drove around the block. No hood or left fender so once around was good.
    The ratchet strap trick was helpful for a couple reasons. First it confirmed the clutch itself was installed correctly and was operable. Next it gave me the end point reference to work from.

    That said I think the good bleeding was what made the difference. Bottom line, If you don’t have 1.5” of travel from your slave it’s just not bled well.
     
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  15. Mar 7, 2021
    shaun

    shaun Member

    Lebanon, Ohio
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    I will hopefully try these 2 methods Monday afternoon. Thanks for the update!!! Cross my fingers..
     
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  16. Mar 8, 2021
    shaun

    shaun Member

    Lebanon, Ohio
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    So I re-bled my 3/4 hydraulic slave/clutch system. A few bubbles came out. 20 min later it was without bubbles. Reinstalled the clutch onto bellhouse and firewall. Presses clutch in—- no difference—— under the ratchet strap. At the point where my clutch plunge basically stopped moving is where the strap started to become tighter. Two tough clicks more on the strap and and wellah clutch worked. I started it up and it didn’t grind. Only issue “is it supposed to be that tough to engage the pressure plate?” My clutch can go another inch easy but it just hits a stopping point? The pressure plate is at 30 lbs/ft. The input shaft is dam near aligned? Can it be the new bearing or fork catching? Help please!! I feel as though I am just at the top of the hill..
     
  17. Mar 8, 2021
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    You may need a longer pushrod to reach that point. You can just get the proper size bolt and make a longer rod in 10 minutes.

    measure back like I did in the photos above.
     
  18. Mar 8, 2021
    shaun

    shaun Member

    Lebanon, Ohio
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    I can extend my rod out further. I feel as though I still hit that stopping point though. I extended it to 3 1/2” and had same amount of slop as I did at 2 1/2. I can go until it hits the PP and see if that does anything I guess
     
  19. Mar 8, 2021
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Definitely adjust it so it's *just* shy of touching the pressure plate.
     
  20. Mar 8, 2021
    shaun

    shaun Member

    Lebanon, Ohio
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    45E2DED7-85A1-4BF5-9784-0369860F2833.jpeg 7EAF47BC-ED6E-423D-B20A-932F55736857.jpeg
    these are the markings I made. Orange is clutch working purple is normal ops. One with finger in it is where it hits pressure plate and basically stops moving
     
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