1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

My lengthy Borg warner T18 rebuild thread

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by wheelie, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. Apr 18, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2020 Sponsor

    Washington DC.
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,766
    Im watching it too. I just don't know squat about your transmission, so i got nothing to add. The thing is that If i were to get one of these, I would be reading this.
     
  2. Apr 19, 2015
    OleBlue

    OleBlue Sponsor

    Tennessee
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,001
    I drove my bearings into my t15 case by setting the transmission on my concrete floor in the shed, and I took two pieces of pipe the same diameter as the inner bearing races. One pipe I slipped over the output shaft and one over the input shaft. I set the rear up against a post in the shed and drove the front pipe with a block of wood and hammer. That was before I got a press. This worked for me and didn't cause damage except to the post...cosmetic ha!
     
  3. Apr 20, 2015
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,605
    I'm getting some conflicting opinions on the .005 from trusted sources. I am going to try find a thicker snap ring (about .127 or .128 ) and close that gap, if possible. I'll give it a few days and see what options turn up.

    Another thing that is sort of bothering me: Instructions say to install the large snap ring onto the bearing then drive the bearing onto the shaft so that it seats against the face of the input gear. I drove it on until the large snap ring was against the case, at which point the bearing was still maybe 3/32 +/- inch from being against the input gear. I removed the large snap ring and continued to drive the bearing on until it seated against the gear face. This left the snap ring groove on the bearing within the thickness of the case ( i.e., the bearing was too far into the case for the snap ring to go on). I had to tap the input bearing, bringing the input shaft with it, forward and out of the case to get the large snap ring onto the bearing. This essentially separated the input shaft from the output shaft by that 3/32. Not sure if that's good or bad or what.

    I'd sort of like to spin this thing through all the gears but, not sure how to move things in there to do that. I'd really like to know that I can clear all the extra/left over parts off my bench. It's been forever that this thing has had the garage cluttered up. Gawd I'm a slow poke.

    Update/edit:

    So, here it is in pictures.

    This is where I'm at.

    [​IMG]

    I measured the distance from the face of the transmission case to the outside face of the bearing, with the snap ring installed and everything where it seems it should be. That distance is about 6.5/32s or .204.

    [​IMG]


    I removed the large snap ring from the bearing and tapped it, and therefore the input shaft, into the case until the input shaft bottomed against the output. I could tell by the tapping that it was as far as it would go. No hammering, just gentle tapping so as not to mess things up. I again measured the distance between the face of the trans case and the outer face of the bearing. That distance is about 4/32 or about .122. This means that with the big snap ring in place, on the outside of the bearing, the shafts are pulled apart by .082, less than 3/32s.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    With the shaft and bearing driven in like this, you can the input gear and counter gear do not line up/mesh well at all. So, I assume that all is well with the .082 that the input does not go into the output shaft. ????? The gears seem to mesh well when the .82 exists and the large snap is in place. I measured each large snap ring I have and they are about the same thickness, give or take .001, at .095. I thought a thinner snap ring here might tighten up the .082 gap.

    [​IMG]


    Now as far as the small snap ring problem, I was thinking that, even though this transmission does not call for the oil baffle, which goes between the input gear face and the bearing, Maybe I could install one to help take up the difference in the snap ring I have vs the snap ring I need. The oil baffle measures about .030 which would leave me in need of a snap ring of measuring about .099 or something. Don't have one that thin. So, I'll wait and see what happens with the search for the thicker .129 ring.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2015
  4. Apr 23, 2015
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    7,920
    The Jeep part number for that snap ring is 912366, .127-.129 thick.
     
  5. Apr 23, 2015
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,605
    That would be perfect. Thank you. Now to find one or two or three. Thanks a bunch.
     
  6. Apr 24, 2015
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,605
    Is that a T18 or maybe T98 application? Just curious. Might help me in my search.
     
  7. Apr 24, 2015
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    7,920
    book just says (W4ST) with 4 speed transmission
    it's from the 73 and prior CJ book
     
  8. Apr 24, 2015
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,605
    Just got off the horn with Jon/Border Parts. I gave him that number, called him back in hour and he said it's a T98 application. He found only .120 locking rings so far but, will dig around a bit for me. Call back Tuesday.

    Thanks jp'. And all others helping (Off Topic thread).

    Jon suggested, as an option, installing the oil baffle ( .030) then, putting one of my locking rings on a belt sander and sanding it down to the then needed like .099. I see hot fingers. Might be the way I have to go if 912366 doesn't show up to the party.
     
  9. Apr 24, 2015
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    7,920
    I would beg to differ with Border Parts...
    Upon further review, the 74 and later manual shows that part number as well.
    Although it doesn't specifically say T-18, don't think a T98 was still being produced at that point of time.
    I'm not a 4spd guru, I'm only going by the books......which have been known to be incorrect at times.
     
  10. Apr 24, 2015
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,605
    Yea, pretty sure the 98 was long gone by the time intermediate cj5 came along. I have no parts books with the T98 in it (only parts book I have is for the 2A-3A) so, I can't compare that number to anything.
     
  11. Apr 29, 2015
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,605
    Jon says he found one (or more). He doesn't have them yet. Stay tuned. Tick tock, tick tock...............
     
  12. May 18, 2015
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,605
    OK. It was suggested to me to try the Ford dealer. Thought about that before but, they rarely have older parts around anymore. After growing weary of "Call me back in a day or two," :toetap::toetap: , I dialed up the local Ford dealer.

    me- "Do ya have a few minutes for me? I'm looking for an old part for a 80's Ford t18 transmission."

    parts guy- "If it's older than a 2000 model year, chances are pretty slim."

    me- "Can ya check for me anyhow? I know I'm grasping at straws but,......"

    Long and short of it. He came up with a PN and found a dealer here in PA that still has 5 in stock of .128 and, 4 of .124 thicknesses. So, I called them up and they are going to double check in the "OLD warehouse" tomorrow. Their computer shows them still in stock. So, c'mob baby! Show me some love! Here's to hoping. Going to buy a lottery ticket in a few minutes, too. :)

    Ford PNs as follows.

    .124 thickness B6C7064C

    .128 thickness B6C7064D

    Should have done this like 2 weeks ago. Who'd a thunk it? I've had dealers snicker and chuckle when looking for parts this old, over the last, say 10 years. That's why I don't even bother anymore. Just shows to go ya. Game on!
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2015
  13. May 18, 2015
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2020 Sponsor

    Washington DC.
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,766
    I have NOT gone to a dealer for any parts for the same reasons as you. If you get them it will be cool.
     
  14. May 18, 2015
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,784
    If there not to expensive I would buy them all............then you have the inventory!
     
  15. May 18, 2015
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,605
    I thought about that but, I doubt I will do this more than maybe 1 more time, if that. This is what got me, and I'll have to ask him again but, the .124 ring was like 3.85 each and the .128 ring, he said was over 8.00 each. Doesn't make any sense to me but, who knows.
     
  16. May 18, 2015
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    2,104
    Sort of like dealing with some lumber yards here. The computer shows 20 sheets of Baltic Birch in stock. Get out to the warehouse, only 3 sheets there. Just make sure they have what they say they do before sending any money.
     
  17. May 21, 2015
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,605
    The new phone book is here! The new phone book is here! No.....wait.....lock rings. Yea. The new lock rings are here! The new lock rings are here!

    That was quick. Just talked to the parts guy yesterday morning and today, viola! Guess what's on the table when I got home.

    So, I ended up buying all of them. 5 of the .124 and 4 of the .128. Thanks Terry. If anybody finds himself in need of a thicker snap ring, I got some.

    Ended up using the .124. Seems nice and snug. Can't slide a piece of paper in between. Seemed a little too small in diameter, compared to the used ones that came out. Worried me for a few minutes until I compared it to the new one that came in the rebuild kit. They were very similar in I.D. so, I'm happy. I guess they are a bit small when new and kind of stretch with age?

    I wanna drop the shift tower back on and make sure it goes through all the gears as it should. Then I'll install the front bearing retainer and rebuild the shift tower and this thread is finally over. Another year or so should do it. :D

    Again, many thanks to all who have been following along, and advising, and walking me through this. I'm a real bone head and really need to have things like this spelled out for me in no uncertain terms. I would never have attempted this without the support of the folks here.


    [​IMG]
     
  18. May 22, 2015
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,718
    Glad you found them Dave....
    I may need a couple thick snap rings myself.
    I have two T18's and a T98 to rebuild someday.
     
  19. May 22, 2015
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,605
    So, with golden snap ring installed, I temporarily installed the Novak front bearing retainer then, installed the shift tower assembly and rowed it through all the gears to make sure everything worked as it should. It went through all the gears as it should so, I'm feeling really good about life for a change.

    Removed the shift tower for service. Removed the bearing retainer then, reinstalled it with it's gasket and a smear of that gear lube specific sealant and some blue lock tite on the bolt threads. Calls for 25 lb-ft but, without the right torque wrench, I just made them super snug. I smeared some petroleum jelly on the seal inside the retainer before installation as well.

    Installed the PTO cover, again using the special sealant. I used some other bolts to just snug it down for tonight. Tomorrow, I'll remove those and install the factory ones with their lock washers. Not sure if I want to drop some lock tite on them or just smear some sealant on them. Trying to do all I can to avoid leaks.

    I'm going to trim the extra gasket and oozed out sealant from around the retainer so the bell mounts nicely.

    [​IMG]


    Made a little frame thingy and mounted the shift tower to it to make it a bit easier to work on. Won't be rolling around, etc. Stay tuned for shift tower rebuild.

    BTW, I have all the IH T18 parts available if anyone knows anyone who knows somebody that would want them. I feel confident, at this point, that I can clean this stuff off the work bench and unload it. I wanted to keep everything 'til I was done, as suggested. Anyone see why I should I hold onto the stuff any longer?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2015
  20. May 23, 2015
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
    Messages:
    11,539
    Put sealer on the threads of all the bolts. Don't use thread locker. Also, I'd recommend removing the excess sealer around the front bearing retainer. Can interfere with the transmission sitting flush against the bellhousing. I'd go around the perimeter of the bearing retainer with a razor blade then scrape the excess off. Works well.
    Common for the snap rings to get stretched when removed.
     

Share This Page

New Posts