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My lengthy Borg warner T18 rebuild thread

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by wheelie, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. Oct 13, 2013
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Yes, remove the countershaft and gear first. Makes life much easier.


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  2. Oct 13, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    York, PA
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    Very well. And, I did measure the clearance (endplay ?) between the back end of the counter shaft and it's thrust washer, before removing the bolt and lock plate, at .022. with a feeler gauge. Not sure if this was necessary or not but, I'm learning to measure, mark, note, photograph, etc., everything.
     
  3. Oct 13, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

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    This is going behind my OF 231, currently in the JEEP. I have been considering a TBI 4.3 but, that will be later, if at all. I think I could mate the t18 to the 4.3 with aftermarket parts from AA or Novak. I'll check into if the need arises.

    So, I got the countershaft gear and countershaft out, along with the reverse idler assembly.

    [​IMG]

    Found this magnet glued to the bottom of the case with, I dunno, silicone or something. I never thought it a good idea to glue stuff into the case of a rotating assembly like this. I'd opt for a magnetic drain plug. This may come out.

    [​IMG]




    I cleaned the case quickly and brought it back in for a quick look at it, with the adapter laying on it. It seems that only one hole will line up. Either the top right or top left. Seems like the top left would line everything up better, at quick glance. I was thinking that at least 2, and maybe 3, holes would line up. If that were so, I could bolt the adapter to the T18 case, locate the rest of the holes, then drill and tap them. With only one hole lining up, I can't really do that accurately.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I guess I can drive that seal out of the adapter, too. Have to find a source for it's replacement.

    Back to the search mode to reread.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  4. Oct 13, 2013
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    R&P stocks the seal normally. You will need to drill and tap all 6 holes and plug with a set screw the bottom left hole in the transmission case. Use the old bearing to center the adapter to the case then make the top of the adapter parallel with the top of the transmission case. Then mark your holes with a transfer punch. I have one in the garage I just did this to and can take pics so you can see what it should look like. Will be tomorrow before I can take pics. I have that textbook for you too. Just keep forgetting to box it up. Will do so tomorrow and should go out Tuesday.


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  5. Oct 13, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

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    OK. Never thought of using the old bearing to center things up. Good call. And yes, I would like see what the back of the T18 case looks like after drilling and tapping the holes. Seems like the top 2 holes will be close to the new holes, with little meat between them. Just a guess so, a visual would be a huge help. Hoping the case fits in my drill press to help keep the holes nice and straight.

    Gawd this fun. I'm a little giddy over the whole thing, really. Makes me want to call in sick for a few days and concentrate on this fully.
     
  6. Oct 14, 2013
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    You can see the set screw which is barely in place for the pic you need to install. I intentionally peen the threads so it locks itself in place on installation. I also use sealer to keep it from leaking. When you install the adapter you will also need to fill the hex cavity with sealer or it will leak and drive you nuts trying to find where it's coming from. Done it tons of times with no issues. Some people install a bolt and cut it off flush. That works too. The set screw is easier though. The holes circled are the ones you need to drill and tap. You can see why it's important to make sure the top of the adapter is level with the top of the transmission case when you mark the holes. Too far one way or another and you get too close to the stock tailhousing bolt holes. The stock bolts are 1/2" and the two top adapter bolt holes are 7/16" so you can't use the stock bolt holes. Plus it clocks the transfer case and adapter completely wrong.
     
  7. Oct 14, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

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    Thanks. The close proximity of the 2 new top holes to the the factory holes is what had me concerned and curious. No reason to plug the other 3 original holes but, can I anyway? Or am I inviting a potential problem?

    I cleaned up my case a little better tonight. Chased all the threads to clean out all the old sealants and gunk. Then I removed the oil seal from the adapter plate. Double lipped unit marked NOK T18C 110. Then I put an old bearing in the back of the case, as you indicated, (though I forgot the snap ring, will put it in before getting busy with marking holes and stuff) and placed the adapter over it to kind of get a feel for what's happening. I have transfer punches for marking the holes correctly.

    I think I will level the case on the workbench with a torpedo level then, level the adapter to match. Thinking about how I want to clamp it all together so it doesn't move while marking the holes.

    I will have to buy some short drill bits so I can make this happen on my bench top drill press. I have about 14 1/2" between the end of the chuck and the top of the base (table swung out of the way). The case is about 12" long. The bit goes into the chuck about 1 1/4". I found some bits that are 3 1/8 long. That should leave me enough room to get it set up. I might mark, drill and tap 2 of the small holes, then bolt the adapter in place to mark the rest of the holes. Less chance of missing one of the locations this way. Over thinking it, I know but, the less chance I give myself to screw this up, the better. Probably start with a 1/4" pilot hole on all 6 new holes, the move to the appropriate drill for the tap size.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  8. Oct 15, 2013
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Trying to remember, the holes in the adapter are smooth right? Use the same size bit with the adapter clamped in place for your dimple, remove adapter and drill with proper sized bit. Everything should line up fine that way.
     
  9. Oct 15, 2013
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    You can plug the other 3 holes but unnecessary. Especially since one is external (bottom right).
    The bolt holes in the adapter are smoothe but can get burred up. I run a drill bit through the holes to remove any burrs first then set it up to mark the holes. Center punch, drill with a pilot drill (small drill bit) then Drill with appropriate size drill and tap.


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  10. Oct 17, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

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    Ran a drill bit through the 4 holes in the adapter as suggested since my transfer punch would not fit through 2 of them because of the burrs. Ordered my short drill bits today from Fastenal. Won't get them until Monday so, we're in a holding pattern for a few days.

    FF to Monday.....well okay, Tuesday. Chucked one of the short bits to make sure I was good to go. Roger that. All looks good. But, before I drill, one quick question. Is it common for the top of the adapter and the machined bottom of the adapter to not be parallel to each other? With the case leveled on the bench, I went to level the adapter. When I leveled the top of the adapter plate, I noticed that the bottom looked askew. Sure enough, leveling across the bottom of the plate, it was off about 1/16th. Not a big deal I guess. I'm probably over thinking it again. So, should I stick with leveling across the top of the adapter and nevermind the transmission mounting surface being off a tad or, level the mounting surface with the case?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I bought a 2 1/2" long pipe nipple and 2 caps, scrounged up some big washers, and used it all to help hold the adapter in place while setting it up. It helps but, the adapter still spins freely. There is a gap of .008 - .009 between the adapter and transmission case. I'm guessing a gasket will fill this gap at final assembly.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  11. Oct 22, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

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    Ooops. Thought my edit would bump the thread. Not so.....See above.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  12. Oct 22, 2013
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
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    When I did my T18 I had to grind a little on the T18 case to provide clearance between it and the D18 t-case. I also had to grind quite a bit from the shifter assembly on the D18 for clearance. With that in mind you might want to bolt up the t-case to the adapter and see how it looks. If I could have clocked my adapter a little more clockwise it would have helped. I'm not sure that having the top of the adapter level with the top of the tranny is all that important. Maybe Nick can add to this.
     
  13. Oct 22, 2013
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

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    Where the issue really shows up if the adapter top is not level with the top of the transmission case is the bolt that goes through the adapter into the transfer case and the relief where the reverse idler shaft and cluster gear shaft heads (and lock plate) protrude into the adapter. Rotate the adapter and it can be an issue. Especially the bolt going into the transfer case. Rotate the adapter and no room for the bolt head or a wrench to tighten it.




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  14. Oct 22, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

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    Very well. I will disregard the slightly out of level, bottom part of the adapter, and go by the top. Just curious if you had ever noticed this difference or not.

    The top of the adapter is rough cast and seems like it could, possibly, cause the slight difference between the top and bottom readings on the level. I will proceed later in the week. Maybe Thursday evening.
     
  15. Oct 23, 2013
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

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    It doesn't have to be perfect, but should be fairly close. If you have it right the top two bolt holes for the adapter should be equidistant from the top two stock bolt holes in the transmission case. I do a light punch mark for each bolt hole then check the distance. If I do it lightly and am off then I can go back and re-mark if necessary.
    The mount is also another issue. You want it level also, but let the top two bolt holes be your guide. This is more important. A mount or crossmember can be fairly easily adjusted, the other things I mentioned, not so much.
    As an FYI, I don't use a level but a tape measure to the bolt holes as a level can rock around on the rough casting.

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    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  16. Oct 23, 2013
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Hey Wheelie,
    Just found this long winded post of yours.

    I have a couple extra OEM NOS Borg Warner Blocking rings.
    (the single large one)
    I'll be sending you a freebie blocking ring along with your Stimsonite lenses.
     
  17. Oct 30, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

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    Well, this went about like I expected it to. Like everything else I've touched recently. Never have I wanted a floor model drill press more. It may have helped, as having to move everything around while changing bits was a hassle. Led to some centering issues as well, going from one size drill bit to the next. But, it's drilled and tapped and bolted on. Looks good and looks right AFAIK even though it turned into a bit of hack job.

    Holes drilled and tapped. As careful as I was in measuring and marking, I still had to commit the cardinal sin and get the file out. 2 of the small holes were off a bit and I had to oblong the corresponding holes in the adapter plate. Hated to mess up the adapter but, no choice. Seems pretty close to right. If anything, the transfer case will be kicked up a tad as I think I'm off a bit, in a counter-clockwise direction, viewing from the back. Not real happy with my work but, nothing I can do about it now. Move on.
    [​IMG]

    The adapter bolted on.
    [​IMG]

    View from the inside looking at the new holes. I don't think I've interfered with anything else.
    [​IMG]

    Turned my attention to the bell housing mods. Dug the bell out, that I had been saving. Immediately noticed this crack at the 6 o clock position. Dang it. Guess I need another bell. I can use this one to drill the ears on the transmission case, though. I'm going to order the front bearing retainer from Novak. For $55.00, it seems like the smart thing to do. When it arrives, I'll start the holes on the case.
    [​IMG]


    Also, while talking about ordering parts. The one thrust washer for the counter shaft........the one has a copper or bronze coating on it, I presume as a wear surface. The replacement that came in the rebuild kit has no copper/bronze on it. It's just steel. Should I get one with the copper/bronze on it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
  18. Oct 30, 2013
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

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    Not bad. You're getting there!

    There should be three thrust washers for the counter gear, one steel, and two copper/brass/bronze coated. The large one goes on the front of the case inside and the steel one goes against the inside of the rear of the case. The small bronze covered one goes against the steel one at the back if the case and the counter gear.


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  19. Oct 30, 2013
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

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    [​IMG]

    The one on the left goes in the front, the one on the right goes against the inside back of the case, the middle one goes between the one on the right and the counter gear. I forgot they started using a different coating on them. Probably tin or something similar.


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  20. Oct 30, 2013
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

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    Yea, that's what mine look like. I was looking for the darker color coating, like on the one that came out of the donors. If this is what they are using now, I guess I'll just go with it. Just feel more comfortable with the old type, the darker coating. Not sure why. I have issues with change, I guess.

    It'll be a little while before I get to needing the washers as reassembly is a bit down the road. I want to get all the case and bell mods done, then have the case hot tanked/cleaned, then put it all together. Have to order the front bearing retainer and find another bell housing.
     
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