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Mega Squirt on Dauntless 225 V6.

Discussion in 'Jeepster Commando and Commando Tech' started by larrylunk, Jul 25, 2007.

  1. Jul 25, 2007
    larrylunk

    larrylunk participant

    Longmont, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    33
    I currently am gathering info on using Mega Squirt on a Dauntless 225 V6 for a write up to be produced later. I am looking for your experiences and thoughts on the whole process. I am in the initial stages and gathering parts. I am about to order my Mega Squirt parts and looking for feedback.
    1. What is the best MS to buy? MSII Ver. 3?
    2. Does anyone have a favorite place to buy MS?
    3. Does anyone know of any good package deals?
    4. Is the relay board a good deal?
    5. Do I really need the Stimulator board?
    Here are my thoughts…
    1. I am planning on buying MSII Ver. 3(surface mount).
    2. Glenn’s Garage seemed to have what I need.
    3. Still looking.
    4. Seems like it would be easy, but it’s more $$, and one more thing to troubleshoot and repair.
    5. ??
    Here is what I have so far...
    TBI from 92 S-10 4.3l.
    Coolant temp sensor (GM)
    Planning on purchasing...
    Innovative LC-1 wideband O2 sensor
    IAT sensor (GM)
    I need to figure out what type of fast idle valve to use.
    Any thoughts?
    (I posted this under the commando section because thats what I have)
     
  2. Jul 25, 2007
    DanStew

    DanStew Preowned Merkin salesman Staff Member

    Lexington, South...
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    Sep 22, 2002
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    4,585
    I am curious to what info you get. I am in the process of trying to convert to MS but not as far as you :)
     
  3. Jul 25, 2007
    trickpatrick

    trickpatrick Done? LOL

    North Idaho USA
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    838
    The main problem as I understand is the oddfire not working with the computer.

    I have a complete S 10 vortech with the TBI stuff.
    But havnt seen any real conformation on the oddfire problem.

    Somone was working on a timing sensor inserted into the Balancer as I recall??

    Like many here I want my dauntless and TBI.
     
  4. Jul 25, 2007
    hudsonhawk

    hudsonhawk Well-Known Member

    North Texas...
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
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    1,937
    *Word of Warning: This is an involved long term project. Unless you just really love tinkering and playing with your fuel system and engine performance this may not be for you. *

    Because the odd-fire does not provide tack pulses in an even manner it will cause the computer to think the engine RPMS are fluctuating rapidly and make tunning near impossible. Some people have corrected this by using a hall effect sensor on the crank pully or on the flywheel as a rpm reference instead of off the negative side of the coil.

    As for IAC? Does your TB not have the integrated IAC? Ii so then you can just use that.

    My preferences are the MSII V3 board. Lots more options to customize it to your vehicle. Also the MSII processor is much faster and more reliable.

    Don't forget you need a good MAP reference for the computer as well as the other sensors.

    Yes the stimulator is worth it unless you know someone who already has it. You cannot perform the tests during assembly without it.

    The relay board is not necassary but it makes wiring a lot easier.

    I also run the LC1 wideband. Makes tunning so much easier then a NB o2.

    The software is calibrated to the standard GM sensors. If you use them then it will make set up a lot easier.
     
    KeyserSoSay likes this.
  5. Jul 25, 2007
    larrylunk

    larrylunk participant

    Longmont, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
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    I am just starting out come along for the ride if you like!!
     
  6. Jul 25, 2007
    larrylunk

    larrylunk participant

    Longmont, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
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    33
    I have been interested in fuel injection for years and I can tuna fish, I just can't tune a carb. Anyway, I am not in a hurry and realize this is a journey.

    Are you running MS on a 258? Or did you have to solve the odd-fire problem?
    I have talked with green71jeep and he has solved this problem. I have a good guess but maybe I can get him to pipe in on this subject.

    I did not know that the GMTBI had a built in IAC. I have read that most people using the GM TBI are using a PWM idle valve driver for Bosch and NipponDenso idle valves. Is this controling the IAC on the GM TBI?

    As far as a MAP reference, isn’t one supplied with the ECU? It is a 2.5 bar and can be upgraded to a 4 bar. Or am I missing the boat?
     
  7. Jul 25, 2007
    hudsonhawk

    hudsonhawk Well-Known Member

    North Texas...
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    Feb 4, 2005
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    1,937
    sorry its a 258 with DUI HEI. I have only read what other people are doing to correct the issue with odd-fire engines.

    It depends on the Throttle body. Most have an IAC with stepper motor that the MSII can control. This is one of the advantages of the MSII.

    Yes the MAP sensor is in the MS but you need to reference direct manifold pressure not one of the fittings on the TB. So you need to make sure your intake manifold has a fittiing for the reference line that runs to the MS.

    http://www.hudsonhawk.net/jeep/jeepmain.htm for more information on how I did mine. Yours will be very simular except how you correct for the odd-fire ignition.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2007
  8. Jul 25, 2007
    larrylunk

    larrylunk participant

    Longmont, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
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    I wanted to go with the HEI but I think I will get the MS working first and then maybe attempt the odd firing HEI.

    After checking your site I will also have to find a suitable fuel pump. I would prefer an external pump mounted on the frame. Any thoughts, part numbers for a pump or specs for the fuel delivery requirments for a GM TBI?
     
  9. Jul 25, 2007
    hudsonhawk

    hudsonhawk Well-Known Member

    North Texas...
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    Feb 4, 2005
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    1,937
    early 90's ford vans had a frame mounted TBI pump. Good source there. I just bought the Holley TBI external pump and mounted it on the frame. Those pumps are not cheap unless you find one in a junk yard.

    The GM TBI needs 9 to 13 PSI and a pump with enough flow rate to maintain that even at full throttle.

    The Holley will go up to 30 PSI I think and has no problem maintaining fuel flow even at full throttle. That leaves it up to the fuel pressure regulator in the TB to keep the preassure constant.

    You will also need to run a fuel return line back to your tank from the regulator. This will allow all the fuel above whats needed to maintain 13 PSI to return back to the tank.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2007
  10. Jul 25, 2007
    green71jeep

    green71jeep work in progress

    Riegelsville Pa
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    144
    Dont go with Glenns garage he has been having alot of issues lately go with DIY autotune very dependable.
    As for the oddfire issue MS can only run an oddfire motor right now in fuel only it cant control spark yet reliably there are a few people on the MS forum that have been able to control spark on an oddfire but it is for a very experienced user requires a scope ect.ect.ect.There is nothing special to run a oddfire with MS in fuel only you just tell the computer in the settings that you are running an oddfire and walla your there.Well I shouldnt say your there you may need to adjust some other settings like lag factor ect. to gat a nice smooth rpm or you can do as I have done and run the rpm gauge in the tunning software instead if the normal RPMhiresguage.
    You can get an pump from the local flaps get one for a Ford F150 fuel injected trucks from the 89-93 model years are Delco EP286.
    I would suggest a surge tank on your setup which requires anothe small low pressure pump feeding a small tank/ surge tank that the high pressure pump pulls from.Unless you put in a differant tank better suited for fuell injection.
    I would definatly reccomend the V3 board it has the built in flyback board you are going to need the flyback circut because the injector are low impedence.MS II is a great choice there is alot of great stuff going on the code right now.


    Your stepper valve is on the passengers side of the TBI with square plug Hudson can help you out with that he is runningone on his settup.

    I personally would not reccomend the relay board it is just a buch more connections to come loose and cause problems building the harness is not the difficult I go all the relays out of GM cars and trucks in the yard for my harness.
    Definatle get a stimulator worth its weight in gold if you have any problems.
    Get the LC-1 wideband another item worth its weight in gold.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2007
  11. Jul 25, 2007
    Hawkes

    Hawkes Member

    Nova scotia
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    Jun 18, 2003
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    490
    Ford pump is convenient, but really too much pressure. I have a 4.3 in my Jeepster, and ran a Ford pump for awhile. I changed it out to a '92 Cherokee pump, but should have a cherokee pump that goes with the earlier TBI Cherokees, it's closer to the right pressure. I'm running an in tank pump on the frame with no problems, I know a guy that's been doing it for years, the fuel seems to keep it cool.

    Paul
     
  12. Jul 26, 2007
    willys59cj5

    willys59cj5 Sponsor

    Gilroy, CA
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
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    660
    Happy to hear we have another Megasquirt user...Did you see the pictures in the Ecj5 picture gallery? I think MSII is a good choice because you can run the IAC directly. I run MSI because thats what I started with and am familiar with, but I have to use PWM to control fast idle which I have yet to do. I have had good luck with both glenns garage and diyautotune. I used a new walbro external pump...they supply fuel pumps for holley and other major sources...I have been happy with it. Any extra pressure is just bled off by the pressure regulator. Running an oddfire with Megasquirt is not a problem, as greenjeep71 states in the MS program you just select the oddfire setting and the program averages the RPM signal. On my first attempt building a wiring harness I used the relay board, but has some connections that are not very condusive to 4-wheeling. The second time I rewired my harness I bypassed most of the relay board. It does make the wiring easier though. I would definitely get the stimulator. It allows you to test your MS build and also test the connections between your computer and the MS. Helps give you a feeling of how it all works before you put it in your jeep. Any questions I would be happy to help. Just shoot me a PM.
     
  13. Jul 26, 2007
    larrylunk

    larrylunk participant

    Longmont, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
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    I did see the pic’s. I believe those will be discussed shortly. I would like to ask about intake manifolds, mounting plates, and all kinds of good things but I will need to get caught up with parts and such.

    Wow!! Thanks for all the great info guys!! It looks like I will be off to the junk yard this week end. I will try and order my MSII kit and stimulator today.

    Parts list.
    MSII fuel injection ECU with flyback board.
    Stimulator board for MSII testing
    GM TBI with IAC stepper
    GM coolant sensor
    GM Input Air Temp sensor
    LC-1 wideband O2 sensor
    Fuel pump -- Delco EP286, Holley pro-jection pump, or early 90’s Cherokee in-tank pump.

    Things to do
    Fuel return line to bleed off pressure
    Install port on intake manifold for MAP sensor.

    Anything else?

    Did you have a port or did you drill, tap and install a fitting?
     
  14. Jul 26, 2007
    green71jeep

    green71jeep work in progress

    Riegelsville Pa
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
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    144
    On the map line you just have to make sure it is constant vacumn not intermitant vacumn there is ports on the back of the throttle body that will work fine this is were mine and Ryans are hooked up.
    If you buy the V3 board it has the flyback circut built in you do not need the extra flyback board.
     
  15. Jul 26, 2007
    hudsonhawk

    hudsonhawk Well-Known Member

    North Texas...
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    Feb 4, 2005
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    I had a plugged port on the manifold that I installed a brass nipple fitting on for the vacuum reference.
     
  16. Jul 26, 2007
    hudsonhawk

    hudsonhawk Well-Known Member

    North Texas...
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    Feb 4, 2005
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    1,937
    When you build the V3 board you have to make sure what options you want up front as the dirrections are different depending on how your system is set up. My First V3 board I built the wrong tach input circuit and fried the circuit board. thankfully the CPU was not damaged and I was able to just buy and build a new board.
     
  17. Jul 26, 2007
    larrylunk

    larrylunk participant

    Longmont, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
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    ????? Huh ?????, Thanks for the tip, but what in the world are you talking about? I thought I read the MS page pretty well, but if you had not said something I would have probably did the same thing. What type of tach input should I use? I will (hopefully) be using a Delco distributor with Pertronix upgrade. Anything special that I need to know about that setup? Do I need to specify this when I order or just during the build process?
    Thanks!
     
  18. Jul 26, 2007
    green71jeep

    green71jeep work in progress

    Riegelsville Pa
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
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    144
    Its just during the build proccess you want to build the Hall/optical/etc. for your board you will be getting the tach input from the negative side of the coil while I am at it just get yourself a piece of sheilded wire for your tach input feed DIYautotune sells it just a bit of insurance againt tach spikes.
    I believe without looking at the directions that there are few differant ways to build some parts of the board its not a big deal just follow the directions to a T and you,ll be fine and of corse you have us to bounce a question off of if you need help or the MS forum.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2007
  19. Jul 26, 2007
    larrylunk

    larrylunk participant

    Longmont, CO
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
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    Cool. I will be asking questions. Thanks again.
     
  20. Jul 27, 2007
    GreenKaiser

    GreenKaiser Flamed out again....

    Nashville, TN
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    47
    The guy that sits next to me at work is working on a Mega Squirt for his Z28. Tried it out last night and had some problem that kept the injectors open, which filled up the cylinders before he figured out what was going on. Since there was so much fuel in the clyinders the engine wouldn't turn over he pulled the plugs out and bumped the starter thinking he would blow out what was in there. As soon as the engine bumped over it sprayed fuel all over the floor and instantly lit off, crispy frying everything under the hood. :shock::shock: He had the car in his garage and flames were going to the ceiling. Lucky he didn't burn his house down.

    Oops.
     
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