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Marine Dauntless 225 Directional Spin?

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by Tom Lewoc, Aug 24, 2020.

  1. Aug 24, 2020
    Tom Lewoc

    Tom Lewoc New Member

    CT
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    Was about to have my CJ's Dauntless 225 rebuilt at the end of this summer (valve seats, new timing chain, seals, etc). When I came across a pristine marine dauntless 225 still in the original crate from shipment in 1970. I picked it up for $80 bucks and took it home to start figuring out what needs work. The motor had been stored indoors since 1970 in the crate still with the metal banding holding it down, all ports/openings covered in the tape from the original shipment. It still even had the original inspection sticker on the heavy flywheel. Looking inside it is still brand new. No rust at all, seems like it was fogged at the factory and un touched since then.

    My question to you all is how to figure out if it is the correct directional rotation. I looked through all of the forums, checked casting numbers and such cant figure out if it would be a solid swap for my 225 if I change the distributor and cooling system over.. Don't want to get too excited to drop in my CJ if the rotation is the wrong direction or if I am missing something. Any help or direction would be appreciated!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2020
  2. Aug 24, 2020
    Alan28

    Alan28 Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Châtillon en...
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    Good idea to check before...:D
     
  3. Aug 24, 2020
    Jeepenstein

    Jeepenstein Me like Jeep..

    North Central FL
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    pull distributor cap and valve covers and roll it over and watch rotor position with relation to valve positions and folllow through the cycle..
     
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  4. Aug 25, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    I thought it had something to do with the cam and distributor that made the reverse rotation, but I can't find that. I'd look up parts for a 'marine engine' and see if you can ID the different ones and then compare with what you have.
     
  5. Aug 25, 2020
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    The cam is different for sure, maybe the distributor & oil pump?
     
  6. Aug 25, 2020
    mike starck

    mike starck Member

    salem,oregon
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    The reverse rotation would only be on twin screw (dual engine) installation. That would be a rare one for sure.mike
     
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  7. Aug 27, 2020
    Jw60

    Jw60 Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    12v to starter would be pretty quick.
    Or Turn crank clockwise from the nose.
    Exhaust should be closing while intake opens.

    Distributor would be easy to mix up and get confused.
    Could pull distributor cap turn engine clockwise noting distributor rotation. Bring crank and rotor to #1. Pull distributor.
    Spin oil pump same as distributor while crank was turning and check for oil pressure.
     
  8. Aug 27, 2020
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2021 Sponsor

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    fwiw the boys was a marine unit standard rotation worked out mint.
     
  9. Aug 27, 2020
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    Raise dist cap and grab the rotor and twist it cw looking down on it. If it moves forward and springs back then it clock-wise rotation which if you rotate the crank clock-wise from the front then the dist should rotate clock-wise. That would work in your jeep.
     
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  10. Aug 27, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    That wouldn't work on a reverse rotation small block Chevy. They use a pair of gears to drive the cam instead of a chain on the reverse motors. The crank turns the other way, but the cam/oil pump/distributor all turn the normal direction. The cam itself is ground different for this to work. Not sure how it was done on the Buick V6. If they still used a timing chain, then the distributor and oil pump would have to work backwards or they would need a reverse cut drive gear (with matching cam gear) and they would still rotate the normal direction.

    It seems like the only way to be really sure is to pull a valve cover and turn the engine over clockwise from the front. If you get intake, compression, then exhaust then it's normal. If you get exhaust, compression, intake then it's a reverse rotation engine.
     
  11. Aug 27, 2020
    jeeper50

    jeeper50 jeeps 'till I die

    Gawja
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    80 bucks? just how did you find that gem, man the post office is really slow!!! missing mail from 1970!:beer:
     
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  12. Aug 27, 2020
    iharding

    iharding Quitter

    Tacoma, WA
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    I just put a NOS 1970 engine back in service. Do not even try to turn it. The assembly lube has turned to hard chalk. Disassemble it completely and reassemble with modern crank seals.

    Trust me.
     
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  13. Aug 28, 2020
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    The marine versions have direct gear drive for the cam; no timing chain. I second pulling the engine down to clean the gelled assembly lube and dried out gaskets and seals.
    -Donny
     
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  14. Aug 28, 2020
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe pusher

    Maryland
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    Ditto. I had a rebuilt 231OF on the stand too long. Even though it primed up nice the assembly lube had dried. Wiped 1&2 rod journals out in 15 minutes, crank couldn't be turned. Nothing $3500 didn't fix...
     
  15. Jan 30, 2021
    4dawudz

    4dawudz Dale

    ADK NORTHERN New...
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    Wow, 3 speeds in reverse and 1 forward!!! Hmmm?
     
  16. Jan 30, 2021
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    I don't think this engine was ever used in a dual reverse rotation setup, I had one of the OMC books for this engine back in 2010 and sold it at a yard sale. The parts manual only listed 1 camshaft for the engine and it had 225 stock timing chains shown and no gear drive as in most marine reverse rotation engines. Back in the day when this engine was used for marine use most boats that had this engine were small runabouts, bigger boats that used dual engines used V8's or straight 6 engines.
     
  17. Feb 1, 2021
    gromit

    gromit New Member

    harrisburg, pa
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    Years ago a Harley Davidson mechanic described an ugly surprise, a potential hazard to a biker. Apparently, on a Harley, if you turned the key off and a piston was at the 'sweet spot', later, when the key was turned back on, the bike could actually fire right up, starting without having to kick start it (happened to me once in an old Model A Ford, hit the key and, 'surprise', it immediately idled, all well and good) ..... HOWEVER, he said there existed the odd chance with a Harley, that if that piston had stopped just off of that 'sweet spot', hitting the key COULD fire the piston in the opposite direction, running fine, BUT, be running backwards! He said he watched it happen once to a big bad biker. The guy, primed to hit the road, hit the key, and the bike surprised him by firing right up, with no obvious sign that it was running backwards, .... so he figured to peel out of the garage in style, quickly revved it up, and when he let go of the clutch, it screeched backwards into the toolboxes like a raging bull !!
    I didn't witness it, I did laugh, but he could've just been pullin' my chain, idk .... any comment is welcome tho
     
  18. Feb 1, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Having an avatar identity crisis

    Post Falls, ID
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    I’m not sure how this would work on a 4-stroke, but I did have it happen on my old Honda Elsinore 125 when I was a kid. Once in a while it would kick back when starting, but it would fire and run like normal. You’d eat the handlebars when you’d go to take off.
     
  19. Feb 2, 2021
    SFaulken

    SFaulken Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Marysville, WA
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    Yeah, I'm not sure how much I'd buy into this anecdote either... I just don't think it's mechanically possible. Far as I know, the only way to get a 4-stroke to run in a reverse direction is to change the camshaft, I've helped do enough subaru motors into rear engine VW based builds, that I know it was the part that made the swap possible.
     
  20. Feb 3, 2021
    jeepdaddy2000

    jeepdaddy2000 Member

    Eagle Point oregon
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    Reverse running engines are possible with most all two strokes, gas and diesel ( Detriots have an injector dephaser on the injectors to insure this doesn't happen), especially the smaller one.
    I agree, pretty impossible on a four stroke due to the camshaft.
     
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